Wine and SPAWN (1997) + You Had Me at Hell No Merlot (plus Cinsault)

Welcome to our first October movie: 1997’s SPAWN, a true gem that has become a cult classi—no I’m just fucking with you nobody likes this movie, but they should! It’s aged weirdly well.

Get the SPAWN 4K remaster on blu ray

Wine Trivia Question of the Week:

In the 16th Century, during the early days of monks making what we now call "Champagne", what was the name they called their sparkling wine?

• A) Fusée Bouteille ("Bottle Rocket") 
• B) Jus Pétillant ("Fizzy Juice")
• C) Crémant de Champagne ("Creamy Wine of Champagne")
• D) Vin Gris ("Grey Wine")

Chapters

• 1:52 Wine Trivia Question of the Week
• 3:16 Dave is On the Blu Ray Release of Spawn!
• 5:39 Making of the Movie
• 32:10 2023 Snows Crossing Vineyard Cinsault
• 39:36 You Had Me at Hell No Merlot
• 47:35 Unboxing of the Blu ray!
• 48:45 Final Thoughts on the Movie
• 59:46 Wrap-Up / Answer to Wine Trivia

Transcript

0:00

Sip of tea, sip of tea. Oh man, I should stop biting my fingernails. Um, anyway. huh. Yep. Don't get all the filth and grime and dirt under your fingernails, on your mouth and down your throat. Bad idea. the nails are always clean. It's just the nail. I like them. They after I clean them. like to bite them This is way too much information. You must God damn it. Anyway Do they tickle on the way out? Always, always, always. Always, alright. That's always. Anyway. Are you not entertained? Real good times! He's Dave and I'm Dallas and this is Ventertainment. We have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes those opinions are spot on. Sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine. This is entertainment, the wine and entertainment pairing podcast. to another wine and entertainment pairing for your entertainment. This is the podcast where we pair wine with entertainment. It's as simple as that. We always know what we like or dislike, but we rarely know why. So what better way to learn about that than by comparing different wines to different types of entertainment and compare and contrast how they both hit us and affect us the way that they do. I'm Dave, your W-Set Level 3 certified wine professional. And I'm Dallas, your professional world builder and writer. And now for the wine trivia question of the week. In the 16th century, during the early days of the monks making what we now call champagne, what was the name they called their sparkling wine? Was it? Fusil pouté or bottle rocket? Jou peiton? Fusil juice? Quément de champagner or creamy wine, champagne or Vin Gris, or gray wine. I'll say those again because I'm sure I butchered them for all our French listeners. uh And if I didn't, yay me. But it's likely I Yay. uh Right. Again, the choices are A, Fuisie Boutee or bottle rocket, Joux Pétéo or Fusie juice, Croimant de Champagne or creamy wine of champagne, or D, Vin Gris, gray wine. choose your answer before the end of the episode where we'll reveal the answer. Or if you're seeing this as a part of a short video, check the comments. That's right. That's going to be a new thing. Normally we were sending you to our sub stack. Now we're to reveal the wine trivia question answer at the end of the episode. So stay tuned. Listen to the whole episode. Don't skip to the chapter. I'm not going to leave a chapter marker. You assholes. I'm not going to let you do that. You're going to have to listen to the end of the episode to get there. All right. Today. Right now for the movie, we are here to talk about. It is 1997 spawn based on the comic by Todd McFarlane. But first, we have to talk about why we're talking about 1997 spawn based on a comic by Todd McFarlane. And there are two big fat important reasons, folks. One. The new 4K restoration has dropped on Blu-ray this week from Arrow Video. It is, I get my copy today sometime. I was hoping it would actually arrive so I could like wave it in front of the camera and whatnot. It has not arrived yet. We're recording this early-ish in the day. So it's coming today, but it dropped this week. New 4K restoration of the 1997 spawn. We know you want it. We know you've been waiting for it your whole lives. uh Reason number two, the more important reason, yours truly recorded one of the bonus commentary tracks on the release. Woo! That's right. I am credited on the disc as, and I quote, podcast host and comic book expert Dave Baxter. Which podcast host? Check. Comic book expert? But I'll take it. I'll take it. If that's what they want to call me. Awesome. That's what they keep hiring me for. So, yeah, they hired me to talk at length about the history of the comic, of its creator, how that ties back into the movie. And the crux of my commentary track is actually discussing the primary dream Todd McFarlane had when he created Spawn. And then I discuss where this dream came from, how close he is to achieving it today in 2025. And again, mentioning how the movie connects and doesn't connect to that dream as we go. Now, I'm not gonna talk any more about that specific element on this podcast episode because you know what, go support your fifth favorite podcast host and buy the 4K Blu-ray to find out. ah I also pair it, of course, on the commentary track. I paired the movie with the perfect wine pairing at the end of the commentary track. And you'll have to listen to it to discover what that is because in today's a free to the public episode, we're going to give you two backup pairings that work brilliantly, but maybe aren't quite quote unquote perfection. You get what you pay for. Okay, so let's get started with the basics. Spawn tells the story of ex mercenary Al Simons, a government sponsored killer who winds up in hell after his death. And he makes a deal with the devil or a devil, the male Bolshe, to return to Earth to see his wife again and get revenge for his murder. But in return, this newly reborn hell spawn must lead the male Bolshe's armies against heaven in the very near future. That's the deal. Spawn, the movie was directorial debut of Japanese-American special effects master Mark A.Z. Depey in 1988. uh Mark went to Industrial Light and Magic where he wrote most of the code that created the photorealistic pseudopod built out of seawater that features in James Cameron's The Abyss, which was then mostly um animated by Steve Spaz Williams. Now, Depey later worked on the T-1000 in Terminator 2 Judgment Day, the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, which were rendered in computer graphics after a successful demo made by once again, Spaz Williams and Depey together. So Depey Williams and then Clint Goldman left ILM in 1997, forming production company, Pull Down Your Pants Pictures, which was one of the production companies credited on Spawn. Let's jump back to Spawn comic book creator Todd McFarlane. Todd was one of the hottest names in comics in the late 80s and early 90s alongside Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, Eric Larson, Jim Valentino, and Marcus Silvestri. Unlike the others, however, McFarlane was given the ability to fully write and illustrate a major comic. That comic is Spiderman, which debuted in late 1990. He had previously been the illustrator on Amazing Spider-Man, but this was the first Spider-Man book to not have any other words in its title, such as Spectacular Spider-Man or Web of Spider-Man. McFarland's title was just Spider-Man. His first story arc was fairly controversial. Called Torment, it immediately showcased what McFarland liked to do as a writer. It was intensely rhythmic, minimal dialogue and with a caption box driven narration that was closer to spoken word poetry than prose. McFarland married his words and illustrations as both writer and artist. He was able to make both work in ways comics had only occasionally seen in the past. From one man show greats like Frank Miller, Jack Kirby and Walt Simmons. And a side note on all of that, I was in junior high when Torment came out. I had no idea what the fuck was going on in that comic. No idea what to make of it. But I was mesmerized by it. McFarlane literally used rhythms in the storyline. uh Tribal drum beats that a new character called Calypso was using to puppet master the lizard into doing her bidding. Likewise, she manipulated Spider-Man's psyche to believe that Kraven the Hunter had come back to life. after committing suicide in the recent and very controversial story Craven's Last Hunt. Now, unlike Craven's Last Hunt though, McFarland's writing was called, and I quote, clumsy, unsophisticated and pretentious. Whew. There's some truth. Which means it was great. uh well, well, I mean, it was interesting, to say the least. was a departure. And I was mesmerized by it, right. But McFarland was also pretty new to the craft as a new writer. He was approaching comic storytelling in a very different way. These early issues of Spider-Man are objectively all over the place. But personally, I loved the exploration of layout and lettering and craft. Now. Eventually, sick and tired of editorial interference, all these quote unquote rock star artists would leave the big two, Marvel and DC Comics, to found their own company, Image Comics. I'm sure most of you have by this time, this point in time in 2025 heard of Image Comics. It's pretty much the third biggest company in comics these days. Todd was the one to get that ball rolling. He brought a lot of the other artists into the fold. They were all at Marvel and DC. They were. know, Marvel and DC, weren't paying, they were paying them well, but they weren't paying them great. And of course they were underlings at Marvel and DC. They were just hired help. And so these creators were like, look, we're the reason Marvel and DC are selling hundreds of thousands or even millions of copies of any given comic. We should go form our own company, not only so we can call our own shots, but then we will also, we'll own our own creations, right? Creator ownership. that was a major stepping stone. So they actually went to Marvel in DC and kind of put their foot down and asked for it. Like, I think Better Pay, I think asked for like shares in like anything they created, things like that. Marvel DC were just like, no. Like flat out, no. They were getting none of it. And so then they all left and went to found Image Comics. um Spawn was a character that Todd had been sitting on since his teen years. It is when you look at Spawn, especially in the comics, he's a visual and thematic blending of Spider-Man and Batman, um which were the two comics that McFarland had kind of risen to fame with. Spawn was the most on time and regular series in the entire early image lineup. Fantastic. Columbia Studios expressed interest in the comic from its debut, but negotiations fell apart as McFarland did not believe Columbia was offering enough creative control, which may sound like a a duh, but it's not a surprising stance for a creator who had just left Marvel for the same reasons to take. He would later sell the movie rights to New Line Cinema. Forget this. A mere.$1. In exchange for retaining creative input and merchandising rights, of course. That's the kicker. uh New Line president Michael DeLuca. is the kicker. New Line president Michael DeLuca, a comic book collector himself. By the way, guys, when you're in Hollywood and you do anything remotely related to comic books, it's a godsend when you find someone in the industry, a gatekeeper, so to speak, who gets comic books or who has some history with comic. books because otherwise you spend the entire time trying to explain the medium to people who don't get comic books. But that's just a little side note. Do what you will. Anyway, again, it was New Line President Michael DeLuca, a comic book collector himself, who expressed interest in having a character that has established an audience as Spahn while declaring the success hinged on an adaptation that maintains a PG-13 rating but retains its darkness. Due to the importance of visual effects, they turned to Mark A. Z. Depey and Spaz Williams and their Pull Your Pants Down productions, or Pull Down Your Pants productions. That's funny, that's the second time I've said uh the name of this company. I get it wrong every time. I always transmute those two things. Anyway, and they Pull Down Your Pants production company to bring their ILM experience and know-how. Spaz had actually retained his job at ILM and thought that Spawn would be their ticket to leaving the company behind. for good and it was the first I know so so unfortunate side They did leave the company even though this was not this this movie did not hit big but they were like we're moving on anyways. did, mostly because everyone it's so weird and reading this reading the sort of chatter about this. They also kind of felt that things were going to skyrocket from this point, even if it came out shitty, you know, even it came up bad, because that's its momentum, its energy, they were in the rooms, you know. So it does, unfortunately, leave a sad taste, a bitter taste in the mouth when you watch these guys and what their careers uh didn't turn. I mean, Mark has directed many a film since, but... And these great and they're great. They're all great at what they do. Yes, but wow. They are all great at what they do. But but yeah, this was not the best start for anyone. Not for Todd McFarland, not for Spawn, not for these guys. Although I do want to say Spaz Williams, by the way, there's a dog named Spaz in this movie that is named after him. And that's why they call it Spaz. That makes sense, right. uh As it was the first film to pay whatever direct, he turned to an old friend, D.B. Sweeney, a name many of may remember from the 90s and 2000s, to be cast in a major supporting role so he'd have one major name in the film who he knew and could trust. Now, somewhat unfortunately, Sweeney was cast in a role that was a Black character in the comic, something that the film would receive criticism for. And rumors abound that this was studio mandated to keep the film from being perceived as a quote unquote Black film for Black audiences only. I'm not going to cut studios any slack on that part. There's no reason that that should not be true. I'm sure the studio had no problem with black characters being turned into white characters. I don't think they would have stopped it from happening, but according to the director, it was his choice to reach out to Sweeney initially outside of any studio influence. He simply wanted his friend on the movie in a significant part because this was his first and he was insecure. I'll buy it. I'll buy it. go. And to be fair, it does wind up being an unexpectedly progressive thing as Sweeney plays the best friend who remarries the main character's wife after Al Simmons death. So we get a biracial couple whose biracialness is never commented upon or even noted in the movie. It simply is right. They only they also I shouldn't I should mention they also very wisely. removed another fascinating element from the comics where Spawn could transform. So when Spawn comes back from hell, he's like this all scarred. If you've seen this movie, that is, you know, the character is in this makeup where he's scarred all over head to toe, um except when he puts the costume on, then he's got the costume on. But in the comic, he could transform himself into appearing like a normal looking human, but only as a blonde haired blue eyed white man. Right. Essentially only being able to look like the ethnically polar opposite of what he had been in life. Now, I'm pretty sure in the comic the idea was just the main idea plot wise was that his family could never know that it was him, right? He would never look like himself. And the whole reason you went back, the deal he made with the devil was to see his wife again. And that was sort of the be careful what you wish for. Like the thing that the devil kind of gave you an FU to him was like, OK, you can go back and see your wife, but she'll never know it's you like ever. Like there's almost no way she'll ever believe that it's you because of this. But it is a weird thing when you're like, OK, but he is going to look like, you know, an Aryan white guy. Yeah. um Hmm. Yeah, that's studio decision. about that For sure. Right. Although this was a brilliant, this was a very good decision not to do on the movie because one, I don't know if this was something the filmmakers thought about. have no, I found nothing about them talking about this one way or the other. But if you cast an actor in this role of Al Simmons Spawn, and then after the opening, after they die and come back from hell, you basically cast a white guy to take their place. who's gonna take that role, right? And talk about getting criticism, right? It's like, no, no, no, it's the same character, but now they're white. And it's like, are they? Oh, are they? You know, so I think this was a very wise thing, even though it never seemed to trouble anyone in the comic per se. And to be fair, the comic doesn't use it a lot. Like that is something that could have been. explored in really interesting ways, like a black man coming back as a white man and like what is life like for him if he appears like a white man, you know what I mean? But they do not go, they do not explore any of that in the comic, I'm pretty sure ever. Like he literally just like, my wife doesn't recognize me. And then he back to being a scarred hell spawn. And it's like, wow, way to just like ignore that element of race and ethnicity entirely. I wonder if the Spawn universe has expanded on that since the original. I don't believe he has. don't believe it has. That's the thing. I've followed a lot of it. I may have a pitch coming. I may have a pitch coming. There you go. There you go. Like a black man coming back as a white man and just to see what it's like in that. That's the point of the story. And to my knowledge, not even a one off comic or a single one shot like really goes there, which is kind of a missed opportunity there. But then again, Todd McFarlane, probably not the man to do that in any event. Doesn't have the background for it, right? You need to probably hire a black writer. Now that said, this movie does have a black writer. So we'll get to him in just a moment. But let's look at the main character, Al Simmons, played by martial artist Michael Jai White in his breakout leading role. White has since gone on to star in Black Dynamite, which is incredible. He even was able to get an animated series out of that. It was so popular. He also starred in HBO's Tyson as Tyson uh and martial arts films such as Undisputed 2, Blood and Bone, Triple Threat and Accident Man. White said it was a challenge to make audiences sympathize with the government assassin who comes back from hell. And that is actually something that even the studio struggled with in getting um the MPAA when they were trying to get a PG-13 rating. One of the things they struggled with is, you know, this is someone they're like, someone's coming back from hell and they're our hero, rating. Like they didn't want to give that a PG-13. And someone made a really good point once where they're like, what about Hellboy? Like he's from hell and that That was apparently really easy to get a PG-13 rating. Now, to be fair, though, Hellboy is native to Hell, so it's kind of like being born in prison or something like that. Right, right, right, right. He's an innocent in Hell. Whereas Al Simmons really is, like, a terrible killer who goes to Hell properly and then comes back. good reason. And then it's for good reason and then comes back and then we're supposed to and then he's our hero and our protagonist. Obviously a lot, evolves a lot having gone to hell and coming back and becoming a de facto superhero in his way. um But he is definitely like in life, he was a very bad person. Now, White had to endure two to four hours of makeup work to become Spawn, including a full glued on body suit, yellow contact lenses that irritated his eyes, and a mask that restricted his breathing. He said that his long time experience with martial arts helped him to endure the uncomfortable prosthetics giving him quote, strong and unbreakable concentration. That's right. Additional major cast members include John Leguizamo as the clown, the violator, the principal antagonist that required eight hours of makeup every day. I'm going to repeat that. Eight hours of makeup every day. Leguizamo. They did reportedly get it down to four hours even for him eventually once they got really, really good at it, but it was eight hours. a while. You'd have to, I mean, if we're not getting better at this every single day, there's a problem. Anyway, Leguizamo was so committed to the character, he even ate live maggots on a slice of pizza for a scene. Nicole Williamson, who before appearing in Spawn was called the greatest actor since Brando, plays a mysterious mentor, Cagliostro. uh Listeners will know Williamson as Merlin. from 1981's Excalibur. That's right, that's right. Sorry, I'm having this realization right now. that's right. That's why he's called the greatest actor since Brando, but you know, before appearance form. Right? My brain just put that together. I've been reading it for a while. anyway, which we just discussed in last week's episode on American pop. So go check that episode out. It is a beauty. The film and what we present to you guys. We do a little work here for you. So enjoy it when you can. Martin Sheen is evil CIA director Jason when Teresa Randall as Al Simmons, wife Wanda and Melinda Clark as Jessica Priest. Fun fact, this was also a black character in the comic, man named Chapel. But this was a character borrowed from another image comic called Youngblood by creator Rob Liefeld. I think it's Liefeld. Rob had allowed the use of his character in McFarland Spawn, but by the time the movie was underway, he had rescinded that use and the film had to come up with a brand new character. She would later be retconned into the comic, replacing Chapel as the killer of Al Simmons. Spoiler alert by Yes. And for those who don't know what retconning is, it's a common thing in comics and soap operas and all that type of fun stuff where basically you change, you reveal something where it's like, the history that you thought was true is no longer true and it changes. So what you read before still happened, although sometimes they can just rewrite history as well entirely. But once you learn, like I believe in the comic and spawn, they reveal that he thought Chapel killed him, but in fact, this other lady, Jessica Priest did. And then going forward, Chapel becomes like unimportant to spawn. And so they never have to go back to him. And Jessica Priest is the main lady. This was also something they did because he was McFarland was starting up the toy line around this time. And so he definitely wanted a character he could merchandise and not a character that he couldn't. So this was this was all for the best that that Rolifeld had. Liefeld and McFarland were having a falling out during this time. And that's why they rescinded he rescinded the character use. There they were a little bit like Big Brother Little Brother. Yeah. And there was kind of growing pains where Liefeld was coming into his own and Big Brother was no longer somewhat, you know, like he had to stake out on his own and be like, I don't follow you anymore. And so there was all this other kind of bullshit drama going on behind the scenes. Anyway, the film received an R rating before making cuts to get it down to a PG 13. The visual effects were finished, sort of, just two weeks before release. A number of them in reality unfinished still. And Spawn was released on August 1st, 1997 to abysmal reviews and audience response. Though it did make 85 million worldwide on a 45 million budget, nearly breaking even. Now, fun fact, it was supposed to be a $20 million movie. That was the budget when they got started. And the visual effects kept mounting and mounting and mounting until it grew to 40 to 45 million in grand total. that was, yeah. I think it was number two at the box office behind the Harrison Ford film, Air Force One. It came in number two at that. uh One is the superior movie. have it here. I hate to say it to you, but that same year, an animated HBO series was released to much greater acclaim, shockingly by the same screenwriter as the movie, Alan B. McElroy. According to McElroy, the animated series is the version where he got to do spawn the way he wanted to, so didn't have all that studio interference or influence. tweaking everything to get to that PG-13 rating, to make it family friendly, and to do all these other characters that weren't really a part of the comic and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he constantly suggests to fans who are disappointed by the movie to give the animated series a shot. The film rights have been with Blumhouse since the late 2010s with a new feature supposedly in the works, though there has been little news on that front in the past few years. We shall see what the future brings. But let's keep talking about this spawn. Dallas, what wine are you pairing with it and why? And out of curiosity, how familiar are you with the comic book source material? And then reveal your wine. You know, early on, this is one of the first comic books I ever really sort of sat with. um But mostly because of the character. ah I do enjoy the back route into heroism, right? If anyone reads my writing, nothing is generally done by the numbers. It's just not a thing I can force myself to do anymore. So these characters and I get why the public had such sort of an outrage with this character who, you know, was sent to hell for doing a very bad thing. ah And then eventually works his way into becoming a hero um Those characters are so much more dynamic to me so much more interesting so I get the outrage because people are generally accustomed to a very specific kind of heroes arc ah and um But this was one I read when I was much younger and kind of forgot about As I am you know want to do ah and I remember when the film came out it was kind of this convergence of different uh interests because uh Michael J. White had just come on my radar. And you know, it was the first time I because I knew he was in martial arts, I'd seen him compete. I you know, I'd like ah I knew exactly you know, I knew he was he was he was that was like, that's the that's okay. I want to kind of do some of that. You know, it was sort of the interesting. remember I did not know who he was at this point. I didn't know who he was even after this movie like this movie was so forgettable. saw it in the theater and you know kind of like forgot about it pretty quickly after and I did not know who Michael Jai White was he was even in the then Universal Soldier the return equal as the main villain and I still hated that movie so still didn't know who he was just forgot about that one right away and it was undisputed to when he got to be the boxer and Undisputed 2 is a sequel to a Walter Hill movie starring um Ving Rhames and and and and oh is it is it Ving Rhames and Wesley Snipes? I want to say yes I want to say yes no well we'll look it up another time anyways Undisputed Walter Hill film Ving Rhames and someone else that he fights Dallas What's the question? Awesome. Okay. Peter and then uh Mike. Yes. And Michael Jai White continues to play the character that being Reims was in the first undisputed. So he's picking up the mantle of that. And then they introduced a new martial artist Scott Adkins as the villain in that one. Scott Adkins character was so popular, he became the protagonist in undisputed three and four, which every single successive one got better and better and better on terms of action and martial arts and whatnot. so people just started to love this franchise. But Michael Jai White still stood out in Undisputed 2. And then I started following him from there and started realizing when he went to go do his own martial arts films and Black Dynamite, which was absolutely just a lightning in a bottle in terms of comedy and comedy action. So. Yeah, he was amazing. then only in retrospect that I go back and be like, shit, I saw him before and stuff. Right. And right. was like, this poor guy. What a what a attempt. What a what a what a bad luck that it was a bad. What you would come. is a start for someone who has, number one, he has such leading man potentials, particularly in the action sphere. He's also a bit of a creative intellect because he's behind most of his projects. Like he sources, you know, he does these rights, you know, he world builds and all that stuff. And a lot of his stuff is uh it can be a little skewering to sort of social dynamics and things, is, you know, get a little political sometimes, which is great. um And the other thing about when this film came out, I was also a huge fan of John Leguizamo, huge fan of his comedy, uh huge fan of the work he'd been doing, know, film work for a while, since late 80s. um And then I remember hearing about how dynamic this film was going to be. interesting the graphics are going to be because they had one of the guys from uh like we talked about. Park and I was like oh man it's going to be so much fun and as a matter of fact they covered you know leading up to release of a film you know they do the media blitz and so they give you these teasers along the way and I caught a teaser that it was either Gene Shallot or some some morning. program but they showed the graphics for the cape and the four different sort of um schematics for the cape and I was like, all right, yep, going to see this shit, it's going to be amazing and well, yeah. Yeah. And to be fair with the cape, that was something like some of the effects in here, even though they don't age well, they were weirdly groundbreaking or unexpectedly groundbreaking looking back because that cape that was one of the first attempts to do a digital representation of cloth. Yeah. Right. Like it had never actually it was basically thought like you couldn't do it. And this was the first big stab at making it work. Does it work? Kind of not really, but it is the first big stab and then we got much better at it as we went. anyways, Dallas go onto your wine pairing. the wine. Let's get to the wine. That's why most people are here. You're trunks. Anyway, just kidding. Sure. Because of the hellish aspect of this film, I initially wanted to go very simple with the pairing. I recall a conversation with a vintner in New York. think Dave, you may remember me discussing, having, know, of wandering up on this great little wine shop in Harlem, which is kind of tucked away in the middle of nowhere. This is years ago. You probably don't remember. I didn't remember until watching this uh brought it back to mind. But There was a Vintner who was there on site from South Africa and of course she was pitching her. um Let's see, how do we say this? She was pitching her peanutage. Let's just get to that. um And of course, we were talking about Senso. um And so I decided that a Senso might be pretty, pretty damn rad with this film. um And for those who don't know, Senso is one of the major grapes found in some Rome blends like the Chateau de Pape. and certain rosés. is the dissonant of anifera, which is the dominant Eurasian grape variety. It is often described as very fresh and punchy, skews a bit floral, but with a strong fruit core. It's also one of those that is difficult to drink one glass. And I like those from time to time. And this film for me is kind of that because every time I watch it, I'm like, you know what? This this does misfire so in so many ways, but it's infinitely rewatchable. It is infinitely rewatchable because there are some moments of absolute brilliance in this film. And then there's some moments and you're just like, OK, that's a thing. And you know, but because, you know, depending on where you are when you're watching it, you get different things at a different time. So the makeup, by the way, the makeup in the film is fantastic. And you all you may also know that the Senso was crossed with the Pina Noir to create South Africa's standout wine for the last, what, decade, maybe a little longer, called the Pinatage. um So I decided uh to go with a Cali version of uh a Senso. um And I chose the 2023 Filaments, Snows Crossing Vineyard. uh and so it is uh created by a couple who met at UCLA uh and it's made using 100 % whole cluster in native yeast fermentation. The fruit was foot trod during initial fermentation and then twice daily punch downs throughout the remaining fermentation. By the way, anytime I can get a foot trotted wine, I'm on board. ah still does it traditionally as foot travel. That's right. It's such an interesting thing because that used to be the norm, of course, and it seems so rare now because of, you know, volume, honestly. Well, volume, but also precision because foot trotting, you can't get a precise crush. ah A lot of the times when you press grapes, especially if you're making a white wine, especially if you're trying to make like a, a Rose or a red, there's only you, when you crush the grapes, you don't, you only want so much to bleed out of the skins in that moment per se. And a machine crushing, you can be very calibrated to exactly how strongly you're crushing it, how much you're pressing it, ah how quickly blah, blah. Foot trotting, it's a big old muddle mush and you're like, you get what you get. And that is so it is less precise, which is why so many we don't do it as often these days. But after 15 days on the skin, the wine is lightly pressed and barreled down, bottled, unrefined and unfiltered. ah They only made 75 cases in terms of what you're getting. You're getting all that sort of cinnamon in there. You're getting some of the strawberries. um You're getting, um I think there's a little cherry. I think I, where's my notes? Cherry in there. Yeah, it's kind of perfect. And again, this is a wine that, um You know, I tend to be a one glass guy. If I get one good glass, I'm satisfied and I can move on to something else. But this is in general something I can kind of sit with a whole bottle and be OK with. Kind of like this. Yes. This movie, honestly. Yeah, I'm OK with the mis-vibes. OK, OK. know, you're absolutely. Honestly, yes. What's amazing about it is. First of all, John Leguizamo is doing some of the best work he's ever done. ah I will say that he really is. He really, really, really, really is. ah The makeup is astounding in this film. um And even some of the effects there, they aim, they aim really high. They aim really high. They really do. And I applaud that for sure. ah And then you got Michael Jai White, who is taking his turn in a lead role that's kind of that he's originating and this is the mid 90s. So yeah, even with all the misfires, there's still some great shit in this film and just let it play. All right, Dave, what you got? Yeah. And I was going to say Martin Sheen as well, giving it his all in just yeah, Martin Sheen and John, the villains, right? John Leguizamo. mean, even Melinda Clark is Jessica Priest. Like they're all just chewing the scenery and eating it up and being as vile and like. We don't give a shit. We're evil, know, kind of kind of characters. And you're like, OK, cool. And John Leguizamo, I remember most people he was a bit of the Jar Jar Binks of this movie. Yes, yes, yes. everyone was annoyed with them and they're like, and to to be fair, it was PG 13. So if this had properly been are and they had let him rip, I think it would have come across better. But because it was PG 13, it was like fart jokes and. just sort of like him being like Gilbert Gottfried kind of annoying, right? Where it's like, that's it? Like none of this is that funny per se. And that's because he couldn't really go anywhere that was that funny. And so he just got to be really loud and really like in the voice and like really, he was annoying the characters, which was the point, but then also annoyed the audience in the doing of it. But watching this now, I gotta say, It was not annoying to watch him now. don't know what's changed. don't know if our maybe our cinema has become so much more annoying since this. And so we're like, this is nothing. I don't know. But it was he was very entertaining to watch him do what he does here. And so committed. ah One of the great behind the scenes thing is that when he does take a bite of a pizza with maggots crawling all over it, those are real maggots. And he took the bite. And it was like that was what he that was what he wanted to do with this. role. So for me, I mentioned that this is not going to be my perfect wine pairing. But of course, there's never just one truly great wine pairing for anything. um And the way we each are hit by a work of art, for lack of a better term, spawn a work of art sure um can differ. So for a number of you, this may even be the better pairing than the so called perfect pairing that I reveal on the commentary track, but spawn. even as a comic book, let alone this movie, had always been like, it's always been popular, but never really well received outside of the illustrations, the writing, the story, the narrative has almost always been critically bashed or at least downplayed from pro critics and fans alike. Like even fans are like, yeah, but you gotta love the art, right? uh Very few have ever thought that Spawn was a richly written comic on an issue by issue basis. Maybe the overall plot over time can be wild and or interesting, like the places they went or the crazy things they decided to do as this comic just kept going and going and going. But the writing itself is rarely celebrated. McFarland, even at one point really early on, I think it was issues like seven or eight. It was like four issues in a row. It was like seven, eight, nine, ten or eight, nine, ten, eleven, something like that. He brought in some other great comic writers. He brought in Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore. Frank Miller and Dave Sim of Cerebus fame. um And each one wrote one issue of Spawn. And he brought them in because he's like, great writers want to write Spawn too. And so was proof that like Spawn could be a comic that great writers would flock to and add something to and create new characters for. And they actually did. Frank Miller was the only one that really didn't do anything that lent something to the comic. Sounds about right. like, you know, yeah, I know. But uh what was Alan Moore basically created Cagliostro. So the character that Nicole Williamson plays, he introduced that to the comic. Neil Gaiman created Angela, this angel warrior who sort of makes a cameo in the movie. But maybe it's debatable whether she's actually in the movie or not. But there is a quote unquote cameo of Angela. Everyone can look that up online as to where that cameo is. But for the most part, heaven and the angels do not come into this movie. Like they don't they don't showcase it. It's just hell that we deal with in this movie. But anyway, so that is something that the comic has always and Todd McFarlane himself has always struggled against is that idea that this comic is not celebrated as a great work of narrative art or writing. um So the popular but rarely well received. This feature film is a definite mess in terms of narrative itself, a very middle ground you know, mid kind of story, never too gentle, never never too harsh, never too captivating, never entirely too boring. So I had to pair it with the ultimate mid of lines that is always more popular than it ever is actually liked. Just like this movie and just like this movie, it tends to cost more than anyone thinks it should. And that is Merlot. Yeah, so ding ding ding ding. Now, I wouldn't go for the great Merlots of Europe, the right bank Bordeaux's such as Pomeroles or St. Emilian's, which are predominantly Merlot folks, FYI, if you get a right bank Bordeaux, Merlot is the primary grape of that area. But those will be pricey, just like a lot of California Merlot will be on the pricier end, like 40 to $60 a bottle, but much earthier, more tannic, more harsh in their youth, just has a lot more going on than the New World Merlots, which is what when most people, when you hear Merlot. and you just say Merlot, you're going to think of New World Merlots because they say Merlot on the bottle, unlike the European ones, which will just tell you Pomerol or St. Emilia. And you just have to know that that's Merlot. So Merlot is coming from the New World. think you have to go, especially a California Merlot is what I would go with, because that's, you know, it's the type of Merlot that tends to be the most mid and the most like pricey for what it is. Now, that said, I'm still going to give you guys a budget Merlot and a pricey Merlot. So uh The mid and affordable version of this is going to be, believe it or not, the Charles Shaw Merlot at Trader Joe's. The two buck chuck, baby. This is one, the best Charles Shaw read by a country mile. It's actually not bad at all. It's quite pleasant. And even though it's four dollars now, it's a four buck chuck. You can't go wrong with a three ninety nine bottle of Merlot. That's the price Merlot should be. Right. But I also recommend I'm going to recommend one truly fabulous Merlot, a wine that was made expressly because the winemaker wanted to convince people Merlot could be stellar. And it is called the wine itself is called You Had Me at Hell No by superstar winemaker David Finney of Oran Swift Cellars, the original creator of the prisoner wine. Most of you have probably heard of the prisoner. That was back when it was independently made and still considered quite a good wine. um Samantha Smith, Dave Finney's longtime executive assistant, read Shaffer, gopher, right-hand ma'am, therapist, etc. She managed amid her day job to multitask away at a book that was called Advice from John, an anthology of the brilliant idiotic and sometimes deep thoughts found at the bottom of a cocktail and then subsequently scribbled and scrawled onto the walls of dive bar bathrooms. So you had me at Hell No, captured at a dive bar in Texas, caught Dave Finney's eye while ruminating on ideas of how to bring Merlot back to the mainstream fold. Long pilloried for its second of fame in that movie sideways two decades ago, we just did a trivia question last week about this of why did Miles and sideways hate fucking Merlot? um But all good things circle back around. So he wanted to revitalize this delicious, luscious and fun varietal in his own words. So he decided to call it, you had me at hell no, because that's what most people were saying about Merlot at the time, thanks to the movie sideways was hell no. So they describe this wine like so. Dominating aromatics abound without effort. Notes of blackberry pie, black plum, sage and lilac. come from the glass. A flooding sensation on entry drives dark fruits onto the mid palate with touches of savory fennel and licorice as compliments. Long on the finish, the espresso bean and continued concentration of blackberry throughout fades slowly with gentle and saltiness. That sounds like some nonsense I'd write. Yep, 100 % wine writing, baby. Wine, tasting notes. Jesus God. I just can't most of these. But that's how they describe it. And this is actually pretty accurate. Yes. So Merlot, the thing that makes Merlot so mid most of the time is is a very middle of the road. It's medium acidity, medium sweetness, medium tannins. Everything's very gentle and soft. It's very pleasant, though, in that way. And if you can make a Merlot that has some depth and complexity, some structure to it, it can be truly amazing. It still tends not to be like stand out in that sense of like there's no acidity slapping you around. There's no cannon slapping you around. Nothing slaps. Everything is controlled and very in that medium zone, which is what makes it so bloody pleasant and smooth. So this is a very smooth Merlot. It does have some tannic structure though. So it does keep from being flabby. It's got some decent acidity in there. Not high acidity, but decent. So this one you had me at Hell No tends to retail around the 40 to $45 range. So that's going to be your only a little more than you wanted to spend on a Merlot. But it is a worthwhile Merlot. You do get what you pay for just like in just like in podcasts. So go buy spawn. By the way, I had to walk away from the camera for a minute for this. My package arrived. Unboxing time, everybody. So don't don't don't don't. It is spawn. From Aero Video. Yay. And on the back, on the back. that is so tiny print. Can I read this? Do I to go get my cheap Amazon? I know. Wow. There are a lot. So I am not that special. There's a lot of bonus features here. But one of them is brand new audio commentary with comic book expert and podcast host Dave Baxter. Yeah, baby. My first Blu-ray commentary. There you go. I have I can say this as well because it has been announced. It's already listed for preorder. My second commentary track is the OG 1990 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. So that's coming out in November, folks. So expect us to hit that movie in November. Yeah. And I'm working. I cannot announce the third one yet, but I am working on my third for Arrow video as well. So we'll see where this all goes. But this is where it starts. So let's talk. Final thoughts. Those are the wines we're going to pair it with. For me, it's going to be Merlot. For Dallas, it's going to be Cinso. By the way, that is spelled C-I-N-S-A-U-L-T, Cinsole. But it's French, so Cinsole. And that is the kind of wine you're looking at there. His was only like two weeks on the skin, so very light, very gentle. He can drink the whole bottle. But it's funny. We did go for wines we could drink the whole bottle of. That's right. That was kind of the... If you're going to sit there, sit with it. Just enjoy it. Yeah, so the number one thing like the script in this movie. It's not great. It's not great. It relies heavily on narration on voiceover narration at that, which is something that and it's very like on the nose narration. It's just telling you this is the mythology. Now here's where our story begins. Here's what's happening here. It's very Greek. tradition in that way, actually. And it made me think it was and it purely intentional. um You know, because of the hell aspect and, you know, the old, the old archetype. but it's not terribly effective, unfortunately, in the film. Yeah. No, it's not. And I think because also the comic, you know, this is very against the comic. The comic is very wordy. But I mentioned before how Todd McFarland would always write this comic to be almost like spoken word poetry. Like it's all very abstract. He was very bad at just saying like he was bad at just doing a straightforward, simple storytelling. He would always just do he would get weird and go off on these tangents of just like he draw these images and then write a lot of flowery prose around it. And you'd be like, did it? wrong with Well, mean, sometimes you would read an issue and you'd get done with it and you'd be like, that took me a long time to read and I'm not sure anything really happened. And you'd be like, I think that was a lot of images and a lot of mood piece like going on in that comic. And so it would spin its wheels quite a bit, whereas the movie is like, get to the fucking point and like dive right in. em That said. Nevertheless, they and the story they came up with the whole like uh weapon of mass destruction, change to someone's heartbeat. Like it was a little convoluted and and like they were they were struggling to come up with like, how are we making this one movie and focusing on it when they really should have focused on the hell thing more? I think like let's spawn, try and get revenge. Focus on them leading the armies of hell. This would have worked out a bit better than this other side piece. But regardless, The movie is kind of a breeze to watch for some reason in 2025. You don't struggle with it. Is it great? No. Is it fun? Yeah. that and fun is usually a very backhanded compliment. And it is here as well. It's fun because it's not great. It's not great. But it's fun. it's but it's not hard to it's not a slog, really, which is interesting. I thought I thought it would be a slog. And watching it again, it's not. It's pretty easy breezy. do get to the points. And then the next point and then the next point and you're just you go. The dominoes fall for sure, you know? Yes. And John Leguizamo is doing great. Michael Jai White's doing great. Everyone's bringing their A game to the or as much a game as they can to this movie as humanly possible. um I think the only like my biggest quibble with this movie, we'll get to the special effects here, the visual effects in just a moment. But my biggest quibble outside of that is something the comic struggled with as well. But the comic got to go on for so bloody long that it got better at it as it went. And that is You have a main character who is returning from hell out of love, right? Like this love is so powerful. That's what's bringing them back from hell. And they made a deal with the devil for it. And we get no time with the two people supposedly in deep, deep. Like this is developed. We get one scene of him leaving her in the morning briefly before he dies. And everything else is a flashback, but even the flashbacks are very, again, kind of like. Abstract and not very, not very specific, it's just like, look, they're in love, they're they're hugging each other and giving dough eyes at each other. They got married and you're like, right. m So as this epic love that brings someone back from hell, the right like they the script just could not be bothered with it in terms of the actual relationship and romance. And I was like, you know. I feel like that was the biggest missed opportunity here is this should have been a romance. Yeah. And it should have been what brought him back. Because that is essentially that's the engine. I mean, that is the reason that's the propellant. That's the and it makes me think that the original script probably had more of that in it. And it was chalked away at by the studio doubt it because it didn't sing. I'm also curious. I'm going to do what I usually do when when when a film is whenever we encounter here, whenever we encounter a film that whatever is distributed is, for lack of better term, worse than we thought it could be. I go looking and see if I could find the original scripts. I have a pretty good track record. I can usually find some of the originals, right? um And I'm have to go and dig around for this one because I'd be curious to see what, you know, like we said, the writer of this is the same writer of the animated. film. ah So I'm um gonna have to go and see if I can find that and see if it was just a matter of them cutting through all the And McElroy would go on to write some of the Spawn comic as well. He did a spin-off series, Curse of the Spawn, that he wrote quite a number of issues for. So he and Todd McFarlane have been like collaborators ever since for quite some time. uh Another fun fact, there is a producer on this film called Terry Fitzgerald, which is the name of D.B. Sweeney's character uh in the movie. And this is a producer who became a producer for McFarlane Productions. the year this film dropped and I'm pretty, yeah, right? So I'm pretty sure and he's a Canadian, Todd McFarlane's a Canadian. I'm like, okay, these guys knew each other and the character was named after him originally, originally, but that was a fun fact I had no idea about until I started researching about this project. It's one of those things, unfortunately, that rears its ugly head in my work because sometimes I find it difficult to find the right name for a character. So I will put names of people as placeholders. you know, like I've got three scripts sitting right here and like four of the characters are named Dave. have my mom's name. You know what I mean? And then by the time you get your final draft, you're like, all right, need to get rid of some of this shit. All right, I to change these. Well, and also because real names, maybe just contextually, like fake names never ring right. And then but if it's a name of someone that is a real like, you know them as a real name, you're like, me and maybe maybe because it real names. I don't even think they ring right for any specific reason. I think you're just used to them. Exactly. And so in your head, it just stops thinking about it. You move on with it. Yeah. But I will say I doubt there was more romance in the script only because the comic really was bad at this as well and the movie and the comic were very geared towards teen boys. So I doubt they thought I bet they were like the romance needs to like we can mention it but don't spend time on it because we're going to lose our audience if we do that. And to be fair they were probably accurate. That was probably accurate. That was probably correct. They were going for the teen boy audience. But as an adult guy who's now very much romantic. Like I'm like that's and as a storyteller as well and someone who deep dives into stories like it just was glaringly missing for what the setup was. I'm that's what needed to happen. So anyway, um special effects. One last thing I wanted to mention on the special effects. There are some authentically. If you haven't seen this movie in a while, there are a couple of scenes at the very least that are authentically amazing. Absolutely. The transformation of John Leguizamo into his beast form, the violator. That looks like that is as good as anything out of Jurassic Park. That is actually a stunning. It's it was the scene they had the most time. Yeah, they had the most time to do. And so it was the one scene they got to do right. And then they ran out of time for so much of the rest of it. So go watch that scene and like really marvel over how bloody good that fight between the violator and spawn is there two fights, but the one in the alleyways even better than the one than the one at the very end. But they're both truly excellent. It was a mixture of practical effects and CGI. So it was just like Jurassic Park. was the right medley of those for the time. Now, hell, they had to create in pure CGI and they ran out of time. And yes, folks, it does look like something out of a computer PC game. But at the same time, can I also just say it is weirdly like... It's so artificial that it almost works better now than it did then, because I'm like. It seems like a style. It actually seems like a stylistic choice. And you're like, okay. And the male Bolgia, the big devil, his mouth never moves. He's just talking while floating there. And I'm like, you know what? This is also kind of poetic and abstract. Like it's its own style and it's its own approach to this. And it starts to work after the first, at the first couple of seconds, you're like, whoa, wait a minute. is, what are these special effects? And then it really kind of sits well with you. And the finale in hell, the big battle in hell, is so bizarre that you just I kind of eat it up now. I really appreciate it. will say I agree. I like I said there this this film has some really high highs and unfortunately some really low lows, but the entirety of this film is so satisfying to watch, you know, again, now that it's what was it 30 years, 32 years, 30. Yeah, yeah. So 28 years. so it'll be 20. So it is amazing to see the tech, which was cutting edge tech at the time. And now it seems so referential and so analog that it does seem like a stylistic design choice. And when you if I showed this to someone now, it said this is a film that just came out. I don't think they'd have nearly as much problem with the design of certain scenes as we did initially. You know, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's fun, baby. So everyone, that is 1997 Spawn, now on 4K remastered Blu-ray from Aero Video, with yours truly on a commentary track support, your fifth favorite podcast host, and go buy this. Thanks. You can find that on Aero Video's website. You can find it on Amazon, wherever you like to buy it from. I believe it's definitely here in North America at this point. This was the week it dropped. but see where you can find it anywhere else. Arrow's based out of the UK. It probably dropped in the UK already. So go check it out. Now, the answer to the wine trivia question of the week in the 16th century during the early days of monks making what we now call champagne, what was the name they called their sparkling wine? And the answer is D, Vingrie or Grey Wine. Now, A, Fusibute or bottle rocket. could have been the answer. I probably a lot of you were like rocket in the 16th century, believe it or not the term originates in the 16th century rocket. ah So but it's an Italian it's based off of an Italian word. I have no idea if the French would have had their version of it yet. But fizzy bootay bottle rocket, I just made that up. It's not it's not a thing. bottle rockets in American term, I have no idea if the French really have that that's just a literal translation of that into French. So that's not the correct one. uh Fizzy juice or jus pétillon. uh No, also made up. No idea if they have a term for fizzy juice. No idea if they say that at all. But that is the literal translation of fizzy juice in French. Cremante de champagne is a that could have been so cremant is sparkling wine. But cremant is specifically the word used for sparkling wine in France for everything that is not not champagne. And then champagne is its own thing. then cremant, cremante, whatever. So cremante Loire, cremante Bordeaux, wherever it's from, that will be the sparkling wine of every other place in France, but not champagne, because that is the premier and the first original sparkling wine of France or so, the most prestigious. So creamy wine of champagne, no, but creamy wine of anything else from France. Yes. Now, Vingrie, gray wine. Why gray wine? And the reason gray wine is because back in the 16th century when they were making it, they did not know. So how you make champagne is you make a still wine, you finish the fermentation, then you add more yeast and sugar into the bottle, plug it, and then you let a secondary fermentation occur in the bottle. That's what creates all the fizz and then gives you all these extra aromas and flavors. Now, in the modern day, after so long, you'll usually let it sit for like one to two years on what's called the lees, the dead yeast cells. Cause once it's done, the yeast is done gobbling up the sugar, creating the bubbles, the yeast dies and just sits in the wine. You might age it for a certain amount of time, but then we have a method now where we can eject that without losing the carbonation and then replug the bottle really fast. And then you, you let that, that's your champagne. That's your final champagne. Back in the day, they had no way of getting rid of the dead yeast cells. So they would sit in there forever. And it would turn the wine cloudy and gray. Yum. But that is why they called it gray wine or vin gris. then could be. guys