Wine and Music: THE FUTURIST by Robert Downey Jr.

Paired with the lesser known winery of a celebrity winemaker and an oddly nutty yet refreshing white from an "ancient yet local" region (like RDJ! Ancient yet local!)

WINE TRIVIA QUESTION OF THE WEEK:

What does the bright ruby red color of a red wine suggest? (This is vs. a blue-purple color instead.) Does it signify:

• A) Lower alcohol than a blue-purple red wine?
• B) Higher acidity than a blue-purple red wine?
• C) Less grape skin extraction than a blue-purple red wine?
• D) More tannins than a blue-purple red wine?

To answer this question and find out the answer head over to our Substack - VintertainmentStudios.com, find this post on Robert Downey Jr's THE FUTURIST album and cast your vote in the poll, then scroll to the bottom of the post to see if you got it right!

THE WINES:

-2023 Ottella Lugana Le Creete (100% Turbiana), Lugana, Italy

-2021 Domaine Lumineux Pinot Noir Clone 114, Dundee Hills, Oregon

Chapters

• 2:09 Wine Trivia Question of the Week
• 3:37 Background on the Album
• 11:36 Dallas' Wine Pairing
• 18:33 Dave's Wine Pairing
• 26:08 Masterpiece or Disasterpiece? (This is Never the Question)
• 40:33 RDJ's Singing Voice
• 44:20 RDJ's Lyrics
• 48:01 Is It a Shame He Never Made Another Album?
• 58:15 Dave's Favorite Song on the Album
• 59:49 Dallas' Favorite Song on the Album
• 1:01:35 Charlie Chaplin's SMILE cover
• 1:04:25 Wrap-Up!
• 1:06:33 Outtakes

Transcript

0:18

He's and I'm Dallas, and this... is of entertainment. We have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes those opinions are spot on, but sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine. Take the walk, we'll siege the world Sounds like October, futurist knows Our curious, curious, fetus is cold There's an adventress, got out there I hope everyone enjoys the jackhammers in the background. That is just a little aesthetic, a little peppering in a little atmosphere to talk about Robert Downey Jr's debut. like to live in LA, in fact. This is exactly what it's like to live in LA. It's called surround sound, okay? It's an upgrade. We have a vibe cultivating here today. It's an LA vibe. ah Welcome back to another wine and entertainment pairing for your vent-er-tainment. is the podcast where we pair wine with entertainment. It is as simple as that. We always know what we like or dislike, but we rarely know why. So what better way to learn about that than by comparing different wines to different types of entertainment and compare how they both hit us and affect us the way that they do. I am Dave, your WSET Level 3 certified wine professional. And I'm Dallas, a professional writer and world builder. And now for the wine trivia question of the week. What does a bright ruby red color of a red wine suggest? This is in contrast to a blue purple color instead. Does a ruby red color to a red wine signify a lower alcohol than a blue purple red wine? B, higher acidity than a blue purple red wine? C, less grape skin extraction than a blue-purple red wine? Or D, more tannins than a blue-purple red wine? So lower alcohol, higher acidity, less grape skin extraction, or more tannins? To answer this question and find out the answer, head over to our sub stack, the entertainmentstudios.com. Find this post on the Robert Downey Jr.'s The Futurist album and cast your vote in the poll on that post. uh Cast your vote first and then you can scroll to the bottom of that post to see if you got it right. The answer will be there with a uh long form explanation to that answer as well. So you're not just like, it means what? And then we will also explain that to you to figure out if you got it right. But see if you can figure it out. Don't Google it. See if you know, see you can get it right. See if you can figure that out just from the information we have provided you here today. See you at our substack. at kubentertainmentstudios.com. No cheating, guys. And on that note, we are here today to discuss actor Robert Downey Jr.'s one and only music album, The Futurist, released in 2004 and likely something you had no idea existed. Though fun fact, our DJ has continued to sing and be a part of film soundtracks throughout the years, including a cover of You and Me Against the World on the HBO series The Sympathizer and, chances are, duet with Vonda Shepard on the Ally McPeel soundtrack. Good show, by the way. And additionally, songs in the movies, The Pickup Artist, Mr. Willoughby's Christmas, Friends and Lovers, Heart and Souls, and Chaplain. Downey had just hit the all-time low of his life and career, his drug conviction and imprisonment in 1999. I'm pretty sure some of you fans out there from his Marvel days had no idea, but that's right. A drug conviction and imprisonment in 1999, after which he was divorced by his wife. We covered a lot of this in our episode covering 1996 as home for the holidays directed by Jodie Foster, where Jodie confronted Downey Jr. on his drug habits. He was arrested and sentenced to mandatory drug tests, all of which he skipped until the law had to come down on his On his neck, we'll say hard. In uh 1999. But Hollywood was sympathetic throughout all this time and the jobs did keep flowing after his release in 2002. In fact, that Ali McBeal song, he's on the soundtrack because he got a recurring role on Ali McBeal. A lot of people really liked for it and he appreciated it. Like he always said that, know, Hollywood, even though he became uninsurable as an actor, he could not be the leading man he was just prior to. But the jobs did keep flowing. He did not become po-broke. He did not become a complete pariah or anything of that nature. And he even met his future wife on the set of Gothica, if anyone remembers that. man. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the producer of the film, Susan Levin. So by 2003, Robert Downey Jr.'s life was beginning to turn back around, albeit ever so slowly. He had a new fiance. He'd gotten sober. And while he was uninsurable as a lead, he was still getting work. So naturally, naturally, the next step was to record his first solo album. Exactly, because that's what you do in Hollywood. Alright, that's right. Downey could play piano and sing, and he wrote both the music and lyrics to eight of the album's ten songs, the other two being covers of a yes song and Charlie Chaplin's Smile. Now, a few things to note here. Our DJ had been given hard drugs by his father since he was only seven years old, allegedly. I'm not sure if any of us can imagine what that could be like, and What it would take to break free from an addiction that your body adapted to at such a young age. But he, RDJ, did it. Somehow and didn't die and managed to stay sober ever since. The second thing to note is that if you watch an RDJ interview ever since he was first Iron Man, he's a flawless example of how to be charming and entertaining without ever actually saying anything. But that wasn't the case in 2004. Right after his Come to Jesus moment with his addiction and ex-convict status, at the moment in time, excuse me, at that moment in time, RDJ was in true blue confessional mode. He spoke candidly about his trials and hoped for redemption on Oprah, where he also sang one of his songs live. And it was in these songs and these lyrics that RDJ's deepest confessions and most candid statements of his character, his past and his present were laid painstakingly bare. To quote Mike Ryan, writing for Uproxx, quote, the best way I can describe Downey's singing voice is that it sounds like a cross between Peter Gabriel and Taylor Hicks. That's not an attempt at humor. That's legitimately what came to mind as I listened to every single track on The Futurist. In Man Like Me, Downey almost has a twang that seems to come and go as the song progresses with lyrics like, quote, she says you're throwing life away to move with a man like me, unquote. A lot of the songs have lyrics like that, usually from the standpoint of a damaged man coping with the people around him. In broken Downey Croons, you fell in love with a broken heart before flailing into more nonsense lyrics like, you'll feel my medicine side effect. Think I'll grab some magazines. Then finally singing God grant me the strength to accept the things I can change, change them. In Kimberly Glide, this trope continues with lyrics like, you mistook me for a man who understands. There's not a lot uplifting about the futurist, despite its adult contemporary packaging in Little Clowns. That's with Z folks. Little Clowns. Downey laments, all of my friends, all of my so-called brothers, we are dying. We are tired. On details, Downey sings, I've come to believe in a man. I've come to believe if a man does his deeds while he's missing wine, he's already died. Amen. ah He's already died. He's already died. In Hannah, probably the most on the nose track of the album uh on an album filled with on the nose lyrics, Downey sings, and now he's stumbling in his buckskin. And we're we're rooting for a suicide. He's a boy king, but he's a bastard with a problem. She's a stomping beast. and a dark demanding child. Later, accompanied by background vocals, he adds, no small wonder that this boy's little war toys got him bombed on the carpet, brown out in the townhouse. Amidst these tracks, Downey also covers the song Your Move by Yes with Yes lead singer John Anderson even singing backup vocals. the end of the track or at the end of the track, the song drifts into John Lennon's Give Peace a Chance. For a public figure like Downey, who is so known, but recently calculatedly distant, listening to the futurist is a fascinating look at someone who clearly wasn't in a great place at the time it was recorded. It's hard to recommend the futurist to other people because the musical aspect of it just isn't that good, which is probably the main reason that you most likely have never heard of the futurist. And that is the Uproxx writer's opinion. We're going to talk more about this in a moment, but getting back to the Uproxx guy quote. But if you want to get a sense of where Downey is coming from in a way that no interview could possibly accomplish, The Futurist is, if nothing else, an interesting time capsule of the life of one of the most famous people on earth." Unquote. Curiously, this album was released under Sony Classical, though it is far from classical music. I have no idea how much that might have affected its sales or anything. Like, obviously, I don't think customers, consumers ever pay attention to like what label is on the CD kind of a thing. um But obviously when music stores are buying things, they have to dig through the Sony Classical Label Catalog to decide what they want to stock on their shelves. Who knows if they knew about this album or found it. I have no idea why it was released under Sony Classical. Because even though the music in this album is pretty hard to pin down, it's not quite pop, it's not quite rock or jazz or easy listening, though somewhere in between all of those. Now, before we talk further about the album, Dallas, what wines are we pairing with this masterpiece or disaster piece? This one wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. I will say that I generally will after I listen to an album come up with three or four descriptors. If I were ranking things in that simplistic way that lots of periodicals and magazines do now, they'll give you two or three verbs to describe the album, the crosshairs. for me, Nuts, it's a little nutty. It's a little nutty, but I like nutty, right? It's a little nutty. And weirdly elegant. It is weirdly elegant. I will say that. This album is weirdly elegant. And to be fair, virtually everything our DJ has ever done is weirdly elegant. There's an odd sort of dandy-ism about every, even when he was going through all of this nonsense. Even that. It's all done with a little like Ry smile, a little like, um, what's that really annoying kid from the black and white TV show, Mr. Wilson, Dennis, the menace, has a, a uh ride Dennis, the menace quality. and he always had that thing in his eyes, like, aren't I just incorrigible, you know, that kind of thing. And so it comes off as weirdly sort of elegant. um And I tell you what's most interesting is I would have liked to have been in the process of him writing this album, because that would have been the entertainment. But anyway, I knew I wanted a wine that kind of expressed both of those things, that nutty thing, but also weirdly elegant. And as it should happen, a few weeks ago, we did a local wine tour and stopped into Burbank location of the endowment uh and the description of the bottle was uh it was wasn't on sale but they were definitely highlighting it and they had this sort of full description on the bottle and the first two things on that description were uh oddly nutty and elegant and I was like huh interesting and and so I was like Let's see. I already had another pairing I wanted to try with this one, um but got this home, tried it, and it works perfectly. It is the Othello Lugana Le Crete 2023. Say that ah slow. The Othello Lugana Le Crete 2023. The Othello's uh vineyards lie very close to Lake Garda, and it's distinctive to the Lugana DOC. and it's known for its mineral rich soil and temperate climate of course, as it is Northern Italy, Italy after all. The vineyard is situated on the clay and limestone hills, which gives it a distinctive minerality and complexity. ah Otella is committed to a sustainable bit of culture with a focus on the preservation of the local ecosystem, which is huge guys, especially when you're dealing with these, you know, legacy vineyards and whatnot. wines. The grapes are hand picked and fermented in stainless steel tanks at highly controlled temperatures to cement its flavors and aromas. And then it's been several months on the lease that the that he sells to deepen richness uh prior to bottling its color is pale yellow, although some say gold, but in liquids, it's kind of discerned between the two. So yellow or gold with wispy green highlights, you get In terms of flavor profiles you get tons of citrus and acidity, but there's also um, I don't know if you tried you haven't tried this date. It's a there's a There's uh a Creamy balance, which is again really elegant They've got some fresh herbs in there and the nuts the nuts are kind of the core of this wine, uh And again, it's pretty straightforward as the album is as I said a little nutty but also weirdly elegant just like everything DJ does. Lugana's grape Turbiana is a bit of a mystery. For the longest time, it was thought to be a variant of Turbiana, the cognac grape, of course, but because it was called Trebiana di Lugana. uh Then a researcher discovered that it was indeed not Trebiana. Then DNA profiling in 2008 showed us that Turbiana is genetically very similar to Verdicchio. And in March 2021, was announced that Berdicchio and Turbiana are close relatives, closer to each other than to other varieties, but they are genetically distinct vines. Three clones of Turbiana were selected and placed into Italy's National Register of Vine Varieties. So it is its own fucking thing, just like our DJ. What you got, Dave? There you go. There you go. Yeah. just to just to repeat some of that stuff, guys. So it's Lugana is the area out of northern Italy. uh Turbiana, Q-U-R-B-I-A-N-A is the grape, something I'd never heard of until we had to look it up for this episode because Alice decided to pair with it. um And there was even a lot of mystery involved or sort of confusion because I looked up on a couple of wine websites where they're selling this particular bottle. And they called Lugana the grape and rather than the place. like, so people don't seem to know about this grape very well. Like wine websites that should know better, like actually have the wrong grape listed. So like places that are usually really good at like I go to those websites because they will always tell me what's in the bottle. um In this case, they're like, it's the Lugana grape. And I was like, oh, no, no, that's not true. That's not a grape. That's just the place. So Turbiana out up in the Lugana DOC, all new things to me, probably new to you as well. But this wine is out there. It's out and about. it's gotten and we bought it right out of a wine shop here in LA. So go take a look, go see if you can find that once again. That is the Oteva Lugana Lacrete 2023. So that's a young wine too, the 2023, yet it's nutty. So that is just a property of the grape itself. This would not be an age, because normally the nuttiness comes from aging a white wine a little bit. And this has no age on it really. So But made from fruit with vines more than 50 years old. So that's okay. Alright, yeah, ancient and local and... RDG! Yeah, I got it. Pavement local. On that note, my wine pairing for this album. So this is an album that is an underseen, unknown, quote unquote, lesser work of an extremely talented, celebrated celebrity, right? So personally, I think this album has depth, it has layers, and is an authentic expression of the artist, uh and it continues to grow on me every single time I listen to it. The first time I listened to this album, I was... uh cold to it. I was really on the fence. was like, huh, I don't know what to make of this at all. um Second listen, it was starting to win me over. Third listen is when it clicked. Third listen, was like, no, actually, this is great. think I really like for especially for a one off album by a celebrity not known for being a musician. I was like, this is actually super solid. This has so much potential. We'll talk more about this in a minute. But I paired this with a wine from a lesser known winery of a celebrity wine guy, Francis Ford Coppola. So I had to pair this with his Oregon winery. Most of you probably had no idea he had an Oregon winery. It's all about his Napa Sonoma wines, which were to be fair, the Oregon winery he only got in recent history. um But Francis Ford Coppola does have an Oregon winery, Domaine Lumineux. That is L-U-M-I-N-E-U-X, Le Meunier, very French. But Domaine Light, Domaine of Light, Domaine Light, House of Light, something like that. um We recently were in touch with their winemaker, Domaine Le Meunier's winemaker, Dave Peterson, who enjoyed our episodes on Coppola's wine empire. By the way, there is a three-part series that we did not too long ago. can go look those up. Francis Ford Coppola, winery godfather to Megaflopolis. In a lot of the wines that grow really well there, tends to be Pinot Noir and Chard. And we have a Pinot Noir here made from the 100 % Dijon clone 114. And that is literally the name of the wine. It is 2021 Pinot Noir clone 114 from Domaine Lumigny. And Pinot Noir is one of the rare grapes that is rarely used in blends. Pinot is just too delicate. It usually doesn't play well with other grapes. It just waters them down and or the other grapes. completely blow out the Pinot Noir because they're so much more punchy, so much more powerful, and Pinot Noir is just too elegant and delicate. But Pinot is often blended with other Pinot, meaning other Pinot clones. Now, we talked about clones in our episode covering the movie Moon from 2009 with special guest Jessica Maison. The episode is not from 2009, the movie's from 2009. We have not been around that long. But I mean, we have as people, but not the podcast. So... with special guest Jessica Mason. So go look up Moon 2009, the Duncan Jones movie starring Sam Rockwell, the sci fi movie, special guest Jessica Mason, where I paired that film with a Zinfandel clone blend where they named all four different clones the wine was blended from. So go listen to that episode for a deeper talk on clones and what they are. But as an excruciatingly brief overview that may or may not make any sense for how brief it's going to be, but I'll do my best here. You can cut. a piece of vine off from one vine from one place, then replant it somewhere else in another place. That new planting can be genetically traced back to its parent vine that it was cut from, but over time, the new vine will adapt to the new place and start to exhibit properties that may not have existed in the parent vine. So the new vine in the new place is now considered once it starts exhibiting new properties is now considered a new clone of the previous parent vine. And this is not a sexual reproduction thing. You just literally cut a piece, replanted elsewhere. It's like a seed. It just sprouts. It just grows a new vine. Now, many grapes have numerous clones all throughout the world. It's not just a pinot thing. This is something that all vines do. All grapes do. But extra attention is paid to pinot clones as as mentioned before, the grape is rarely blended with other grapes. So instead, part of understanding how one Pinot, a bottle of Pinot differs from another is understanding which clones were used in any given bottle. So this bottle in particular, normally most Pinots you've had out there are blends of multiple clones all blended in together to sort of balance each other out because different clones are known to exhibit different properties, whether it's aromatic, flavor profile, depth, complexity, structure, body, whatever it is, different clones have different strengths and weaknesses. So This is the Dijon 114 clone originally from the Dijon region of France, hence the name. um There are one. There are many Dijon clones coming out of France, but the 114 is known for its aromatic complexity and structure, which is 100 percent what makes the Futurist a worthwhile album. The overall unique sound and the complex ways in which the music is both woven together as well as the lyrics. Like this is a whether you like it or not. There's a lot of trying going on in this album. There's a lot of layering. There's a lot of, you know, on the nose confessional and overwrought opaque lyrics. And he's doing them both and he's trying to find the balance between them. So there's a structure to this album. And honestly, the more I listen to it, we'll talk about this as we get into the album again, but there are two skippable songs for me on this album by the fourth and fifth listen. I did not want to skip any of the other eight songs, only those two. And out of 10 songs on a single on the first timers album, that's a damn good score. Like that is that is a good track record. So this wine is elegant, but it's also intense. It is so perfumey. I can see why the Dijon clone 114 is known for its aromatic intensity. I was like, whoa, this thing is perfume. And then it had a depth. had a complexity. It's a beautiful expression of Pinot. So Domaine Lumineux Pinot Noir, clone 114 bottle. That is my pairing for this guy. um It works for what it is to Francis Ford Coppola's winery empire and compared to what this is to Robert Downey Jr's artistic empire. um both honestly are worth your time. Yeah, go ahead, And you said that was the Dijon 114 clone from the Dijon region of France, which is also where the mustard comes from, people. do yourself a favor, get some Dijon 114 clone based wine as well as some Dijon mustard and pop in this album and see what you think and let us know. Literally just mustard on It's great band name. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage, Mustard on Your Finger. If Robert Downey Jr. ever wants to come back anonymously for a second album, Mustard on your Finger or Dijon Clone 114. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are what he should be. All right. So let's discuss this album proper. Dallas, how did this how did this album hit us? I've spoken a little bit about this. I'll speak more about it in a moment. But for you, first listen versus I don't know how many times you listen to the whole album, but how did it hit you? What were your initial thoughts versus your final thoughts? m I in general enjoy a one-off. I like a closed universe, closed ecosystem. like a one and done just because it's a pure moment in time. He was clearly using this, I assume, as a sort of funnel for a lot of the shit he was uh causing in the world and also experiencing in the world. I enjoy seeing uh those moments and listening to those moments. So um that is a baseline going in. I was ready to kind of just be taken on a bit of an obscure little journey. I enjoy an obscure little journey. And uh it did not disappoint. is sonically, it doesn't necessarily do anything that is genre bending or um It doesn't necessarily create any new spaces, but it is he both creatively and I guess musically sort of synonymous, but he does a very good job of wallowing in his creativity, which is often what I like to see in. I wouldn't call him an auto and. I wouldn't call him an artist. I wouldn't call him a musical artist, but this is an artistic moment from his career. That is yet not by doing the one album, right? Right. music-centric and ah I enjoy when artists sort of just indulge the muse, indulge the demon um and uh it's a statement piece. um I can honestly see, I'm not kidding about this, once he formally retires in say five to seven years, because it's definitely on the horizon, he's probably going to go the route of being a you think he's going to retire in five to seven years Anthony Hopkins is still active. m Hopkins is still acting, but Anthony Hopkins has not had the size of the career in such a short span that our DJ has. Remember, his comeback, so to speak, has only been 22 years now. And look at everything he's put on celluloid. Look at everything he's done. He is a central tent pole in a massive micro industry. You know, I think he's I can sort of see it because he mentioned last year retiring. He mentioned in an interview. And so I suspect he's too restless of a person. That's I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I think that's probably where this album came from, too, was his restlessness at, you know, that part of his life coming to an end that that previous. Absolutely. And so he sort of dug into a new sort of creativity. So I actually see a world where he may go back to music to either book in this or dig into some other inspiration. um Or my hope is that he becomes a sort of microfilm producer. RDJ, if you're out there listening and you need a new gig, let me know. I got the whole plan already written out, the business plan, all this stuff. You're a micro producer. You do 10 movies a year and none of them over a million dollars. We'll do it. We'll have fun. We'll break break. We'll make millions. Anyway, this album, I think is probably the punctuation to the chaos. that came before. I don't think we could have gotten the RDJ we have today without this album. I think he exercised solid demons in this. So I do, think of it as the punctuation to everything that came before and um it's a single little work. And again, he pulls it off with that textbook and signature rye glint in his eye that says, aren't I just a stinker? And he is and it works. And um I'm not going to say it's an album that I necessarily that necessarily um you're going to return to. titillated me or ah excited me, ah but if I'm ever in the moment to listen to something without prejudice, without an agenda that is sort of curiously interesting, this is it. I may return to it, but it's not something necessarily I'm going out and sort of, you know. recommending, but I totally understand this work in this moment in time and applaud it. What about you? Okay. Yeah, I wound up liking it a lot more than that. this is something I'm returning to, something I'm recommending across the board because, you know, again, eight out of 10 tracks, this is going to be something that I'm just going to listen to. I enjoy it. I enjoy... We're going to talk a little bit in a bit about... Is it a shame that he never did another album, at least not to date? He's only done like a song here, a song there on soundtracks and things like that ever since. And mostly covers, never original music anymore. But this has so much potential. And I agree with you, this is him working out a lot of demons. You I just watched part one of the Billy Joel HBO. So and so it goes documentary last night. in that documentary in his early days, like they're basically All the people in his life keep saying how well and as you learn about Billy Joel's life, you start to realize how much the songs are literally just chronicling. Yeah, that year in his life, you're like, what you didn't realize how you thought this was on the nose like Billy Joel songs. Sometimes some of the things the songs are about. You're like, that's a random topic. And it's like, no, it's random because that was what he was doing that year. And so it's random in a sense. But it was like that was on his mind and he's doing it. And a lot of people in his life are always like, yeah, with Billy, especially if anything ever got negative, there was emotion involved, if there was something that was critical and you needed to deal with, they were like, yeah, you did not get closure. Like he went and wrote a song. That was what happened. And he would not talk about it. You would not. There would be no like come, you know, like, let's talk about this and really come to terms on it. He would just be like. something would end, a relationship would end, uh whether it's an intimate relationship or a friendship or a business partnership or whatever it was, it would kind of end. the only way you'd even know that something had happened is a song would come out. And it would be about, and you would never talk. And even in Billy Joe's own words, he would always be like, yeah, I guess I wrote that song because of that. Like, it's funny. It was almost like in retrospect, he realized that he was funneling all this stuff and that's where the song came from. It was so such second nature for him to deal with everything through the songwriting. Yeah. Yes, it was just natural for him rather than deal with it in real life, when between the person. you can see this. is Robert Downey Jr.'s element of that, the moment for that, where he was like, all these things. Now, I do think he probably did deal with the people in his life a lot better and a lot more directly than Billy Joel did at the time. I get the feeling. But this was still something he needed to do, especially with his marriage ending. And then that I think that just ended poorly that one. And he had to deal. He had to let that out and like funnel those emotions somehow. And this album is definitely that. And ever since, as mentioned in the Uproxx article earlier, he has been very not candid, not very like he's he's he's a closed book to the public ever since. By and large, he does not share his personal life that much. He does not talk about anything. He's just like, no. Now I am a celebrity face and persona and this is what you get. Now you're getting Robert Downey Jr. the actor and that's what I want. That's what I want to show the world and my life, my personal life is my personal life and that is completely separate and that is every celebrities right to do. I don't think they owe us anything. I'm not one of those fan boys who it's like, no, we have to know every it's like, no, no, no, no, motherfuckers. Like he's that's his own life. You get his you get him as an actor. You don't get him as anything else. That's right. Yes. And I do think, this album is a great little window. When he was like, I want to be candid this one time, he gets it all out. And from that moment forward, he's like, OK, cool, I'm done. Now, now it's his time now. And it's funny, he did the album and now he gets to be Billy Joel going forward, where he's like, we're not talking about emotions and personal anything going forward now. And now, again, I don't know what he's like in his acts, the people who are actually close to him. I get the feeling he's very open with them. But not to the public. Now to the public, he's like, no, no, no, I am just your celebrity at this point. So I really appreciate this album for that reason alone. But then there's so much about the music. There's so much about. Yeah, I could listen to this. So I over and over and over again, I think I'm going to going forward. So this was shocking, especially after the Bruce Willis album, where I'm like, no, I'm probably never. This is fun, but I'm never coming back to this. But that was Bruce Willis just being a performer, right? not really music. And this is Robert Downey Jr. really trying now. What is this album's overall style, would we say? That's kind of the next question. And as mentioned before, it's really hard to kind of put it in a genre. It's not quite jazz. It's not quite pop. It's not quite rock. Well, not quite easy listening. It's not quite. I know Dallas, we were texting earlier and he was like, this is so late 90s. And I kind of get that like the indie rock kind of a thing. Like I see a little bit of that. So it's not even the- Go ahead, go ahead, finish. Okay. Go ahead. I gonna say, but even now, nothing I can think of is uh a perfect fit. there's just he's doing his own thing to some degree. think what's happening is um walk with me here. ah So he was in uh lots of rehabs from, what are we talking, mid 90s on till early 2000s, right? Yeah. And from having a couple of friends who were in rehabs in the mid 90s, early 2000s, and also knowing how music heavy a lot of therapy was, then. So I imagine what happens was there was being right. He gets all of these different influences because remember the late nineties, early two thousands really was all about world music. There was that new term and you would see those kiosks and every music store and it was like world music and all that meant was You had someone from Africa who was trying to do American black music or folk music, or you had some folk artists right here who was trying to do some Azulu or Kiwi music or, you know, some weird, you know, amalgamation and mix, right? You've got these sounds that sonically weren't necessarily one specific genre. And so they all got looped into this sort of single genre, which is called world music. And to, you know, the I hate to say it, but to the privileged white kids that was all the rage was like, these sounds, there's a, there's an African sound, that's Joni Mitchell's voice. You know, it's the source all this weird. This was the time of like Paul Simon's Graceland where he was incorporating all those sounds. yeah, was a lot of that influence. Yeah, two Western audiences pulling it in kind of a thing. Then also, think what you the other thing you can't discount is his access to musicians. Number one, because you look at the list of studio musicians and people involved in the creation of this record, it's a it's kind of a who's who now. They are storied and they have great pedigrees and influences and high skill level. So you got all this. Exactly. So you got all this stuff kind of going on in this sort of jumbo of this gumbo that It makes sense when I listen to the album. It is of its time. He probably had been working on songs for years. ah There's a really distinct Y2K feel, of course, you know, all the songs that came around at that point in time was, you know, it's yeah, I think it's sonically extremely interesting. It is probably. Yeah, I think it's something that musicologist music students or, you know, interesting music students, self starters. If they studied this, they'd probably come away with something pretty profound, but pretty... Yeah, not really, but the way he stitching the music together, like some of the songs in this like when you really because when you first listen to them, they don't hit you hard. Like they don't leave that initial impact, which why I took a couple of listens. But as you keep listening, you're like, OK, these are not super straightforward. These are not simple. no pop structure, there's no... He's really trying and he's really doing some interesting things with like the structure of the music and how we how it we yeah weaves or flows from one moment to the next one's type of sound or one type like there it's not even like perfectly verse chorus verse chorus bridge verse chorus. Yeah for the most part so and I will say his voice was actually so his voice is something that. He's got some range. can sing. uh He sang a yes song and sang it well. And that's John Anderson. Like he's got he's got some range. He's got an interesting voice. My thought. Yes. I know the Uproxx guy had a comparison for it. And Peter Gabriel was one of the comparisons. And I agree that there's a little bit of Peter Gabriel in that voice. But for me, I heard Dave Matthews. Oh, that's the other the so okay. Yeah, let me go back. Let me add this Yeah, so the other thing that was clearly in the fucking mix was Dave fucking Matthew We gave was anyone under the age of 30 You probably don't know who Dave Matthews is but find the nearest person over the age of 35 and ask them who Dave Matthews is and I promise you you'll get one of two reactions they will smile because of Instantly remind them of the first time they made out with a girl They were dragged to in some dingy ah dive bar or the person will slap the unmitigated shit out of you for bringing up such a horrible memory ah I'm in the latter camp, but Dave Matthews was massive. I mean it was the biggest thing go. He was the they were you He was an ultimate college band. that he was, they were college age doing the music, but for college kids, they were big. were the college, yeah, college radio kings. Yeah. And me and Dallas both come from Northern Virginia area, which is where Dave Matthews is from. he was big for us as well, especially in our little world view. But Dave Matthews was very big and all the little answer marching. That's him, guys. Everyone's heard that song. But that voice is so distinct. And Robert Downey Jr.'s voice is almost a shoe in for it. It's like so it's Dave Matthews. And I think for me, what did I text you, Dallas? I was like, it's Dave Matthews blended. Now I can't remember. Sting. that's right. So it's Dave Matthews in sound, but he sings with Sting's cadence. Stumbling in his buckskin And we're, we're rotating for a suicide She's a, boy king But he's a, with a problem She's a, stopping beast and a dark demanding child which is and Sting solo, so not police sting, but solo. This is uh, what's his big hit in the early 2000s? It's that back cadence sting. It's whatever that fucking song was. And everything's very slow and moody. Like it's just it's moving at this slow groove. Right. Almost everything of this album is a slow groove. It's not fast paced. It's not big. It's not it's not trying to make you get up. None of this is trying to make you get up and dance. Let me tell you. It is very sting where it's like you can sway to it, but that's as good as it's ever going to get. Like you can't. And think of that sting solo career where it's like all that. You know, he was a bassist and so everything's got this. It's a pocket, it's a walking, it's a walk. And then he's in there right with this these nifty melodies and so sting cadence with Dave So Dave Matthews was a get up and dance. He's like peppy peppy peppy. Everything's like your party. Yeah, he's a party band and now take that voice and put it on stings groove and you've got this album It is a fascinating thing, but I'm I yeah, I appreciate it a lot. So lyrics. What about the lyrics Dallas? What were your thoughts on the lyrics? Did you pay much attention? You know, I because I know, you know, in interviews, Downey often he will he has this sort of There's a... Okay, how to say this. How to say this? Not sound like an asshole. ah You notice he has this problem almost every episode, folks. I don't know. trying to be PC. This is what you're gonna get. Downey Jr. has this poetic sensibility about him. And I think there's lots of poetry, notebooks of poetry in his vault. And much of it probably isn't very good, but it makes for a good song. I mean, that's lyrics. That's lyricist. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes. But I think from his perspective, I'm speaking from Robert Donahue Jr.'s perspective, yeah, I said it. The poetry of the songs can be a little rambling, but because the nature of the songs is also a little rambling, it kind of works. It kind of furthers the theme. And it made me like it even more. Now there's some nonsense. notes. yeah, I read one of them earlier. Yeah, there's lots of nonsense. We just like mean something to him and you're like, man, cool. Right. is in decipher. is gonna sound horrible and you know argue with your mothers But I as I said having known a number of people who've gone through rehab and on the other side thankfully they look back at a lot of their uh Note-taking journaling and the poetry and because it was you know created in a box in a moment where they were trying to make sense of their lives Most of it is just sort of uh fiery kind of opaque confusion and ah I wonder if a lot of this poetry came from the notebooks and journals that he was making at the time and if it did it makes sense because a lot of it does not make sense uh outside of the context of the song. Yeah, and it works well because the lyrics themselves then aren't really super metered in terms of so then you get music that's also not super meter, which makes it more interesting because it's trying to fit these lyrics, which are a little more poetic in their way. Opaque poetry, poetry. And you're like, OK, cool. This is this kind of works well. But yeah, the lyrics. I think I agree with the Uproxx guy where it's like half of it's on the nose. Half of it is like, we know where you were in your life at this moment in time. So some of these lyrics are like spot on. This is what you were dealing with. is what you. Because of that, it's really potent and beautiful in its own little way. And so you'll get a couple of lines where you're like, yeah, that's and then followed by another couple of lines where you're like, I no idea what that means. You know, it's just you're just like, nope, that is lost on me. But cool little clowns. Cool. Hold on, hold on, hold on little clowns. I don't know what you're saying there, but awesome, man. um But it does make for some fun songs. Now, let's talk about uh is it I'm going to say, I'm going to talk about this first. can join in here, Alex, Dallas, if you want to afterwards. But is it a shame that he never made another album, at least not to date, not in 20, not by 2025 as we're as we're recording this? And I'm going to say yes. And this is why, you know, I've listened to a lot of that first album. that anyone ever makes, even actual musicians, right? Where it's like the first time they're like, you get to record an album. And a lot of people, think for most musicians too, you probably aren't even remembering which album was their actual first album. They're probably remembering the first one that was good. Right? And so the first one that was good is often. second, if not their third. um Or they were in a band first and then they went solo. And then yes, their first solo career, you know, we did Rick James, we covered Rick James recently. His first solo album was was amazing. But he had done a couple of albums. Exactly. So it's like he had and if you listen to those albums, they're interesting like this one. But they're not his debut solo album where it's like pop. It's just it's just off. to the races right away. And it's like, everyone gets away and he knows what he's doing at this point. Billy Joel's first album is not the one, you know, that Cold Spring Harbor. And that wasn't his first album. He had the Attila thing. Like there's so many things where when you really dig into, I listened to, know, Prince didn't go solo until he had already been in cream. And even his first solo album, it's not that good. His very first, it was the second one that he really got. Who he was. oh himself on the second album everything else prior to that was the influence of the industry or the people around And there's like a moment or two on those debut early albums, but as a whole, when you really listen to them and especially the artists that made it longer. And so we know what they became and we're like, yeah, that's them. That's who they are. That's their sound. That first album just isn't there yet. And in most cases, it's never that first album. Now, I think the reason Robert Downey Jr. because in interviews afterwards, he was like, look, this it wasn't worth the time and effort. that it took to make that album because of the lack of response, the lack of interest, the lack of all these things that did not sell. Nobody really cared. No one talked about it. And he was like, I'd rather spend this time with my family. Yeah, it's like because of how much it takes to like hold yourself up in a studio. And I think also because Robert Downey Jr. is not it was not a professional musician because when you're you're touring, that's doing all these things. You can you can enter the studio already with all this new material. You're ready to go. It's like a lot of bands or solo artists. By the time they enter the studio, they're not working from scratch. Right. They're not just coming in there. And then it's like they have to hold themselves up for months to make an album. They make an album in like two weeks flat. They're like out because they're ready to go. They have all this material and they just have to shape it and put it together with their band or with the studio musicians or whatever. whoever they're working with and their producer and so on and so on. And then they have a producer that's helping them as well. And I think this first album for Robert Downey Jr. was just so much effort and took so much time. And here's a guy, here's a celebrity that's established in another career. So it's got to be so dispiriting to be able to show up to any movie role. And you get a lot out of it. You certainly get a payday out of it. you certainly get uh even just feedback where it's like, that's a good pro. Like whether or not you won an Oscar, it's then the movie's getting released and the movie's getting talked about and you're already on to the next movie. And then you spend all this time on this new creative endeavor and it's like you don't exist. And that is that's such an enormous leap in experience when you have the other thing already established. I think that's really hard for established celebrities to try to enter into a new field and just go back to being the absolute bottom of the barrel nobody all over again, where it's all effort, it's all work, it's all struggle, nobody gives a shit. In fact, the fact that you are a celebrity makes it worse, because now it's extra judgment being heaped on whatever it is. The people who do pay it, like the reviewers will review your album. It doesn't mean anyone else is listening to it, but the reviewers will review it, and they'll be extra critical because you're Robert Downey fucking Jr. And they're like, what are you doing making an album, man? This better be this better blow my socks off. You know, like the that that bar is a little too high. the judgment is higher. The expect. But then the attention is lower. So I think there's just all these reasons why this was not worth it to Robert Downey Jr. I get it. I understand it fully. But I do think it's a shame because there's so much potential shown here in this album. Plainly everything about this album. I'm like, he had not found his voice yet. He had not. found his style yet. It was all in its infancy. think elements of this album would have been part of whatever he discovered later. But just like with the first Prince album, and then what he went on to do later, it's like you listen to that first Prince album, you're like, Whoa, this is not Prince. Like this is like, there's pepperings of it in there. There's elements of it that you're like, yes, that these are some of the underpinnings of what he would leap to in the next album, but he had to leap to it in the next album, that first album, it's not there. So I think it's a shame he didn't, but Dallas, do you have anything else to add to that? think it's slightly different in RDJ's case because the music, at least in my fairly brief research, it seemed like the music came about as a vehicle for the... the tough times, right? It seems as if he wasn't necessarily guided by any musical sort of muse or inspiration. I'm not saying that it wasn't in the mix somewhere, but when you think about someone like Prince, there is a force that is musical rather than the... that, but... I think the reason it's different and why I would say it isn't necessarily a shame that he didn't create a continued down the music route is because I think this album is such a unique and specific moment in time, person, situation that I'm not sure if a musical sort of maturation in his style and influences. think there would have been, I should say that don't think there was necessarily an evolution in the cards maybe, but there's definitely probably a maturation that would have happened with time. disagree. And again, I think there's good, there's solid poetry, there's good imagery, there's some great moments of, I mean, all in all, there's good inspiration because is clearly going through some shit, so the muse was there. um So you disagree. Yes. So I mean, I hear what you're saying about Prince, but already mentioned like, yes, there's no. You know, he's not a professional musician just doing like Prince went into a solo career already having a lot behind him before he got there. But and Robert Downey Jr. is only just starting out. But if he had embraced this, if he had done it, then he I do think there would have been an evolution. So I think he could have become that. I don't know if he was really up for it. It's a question as to like what he'd been up for, like the touring and the performances and the whatnot. But maybe that would have been a completely like, yeah, he leaves acting behind to truly embrace the music. I get the feeling he would have had to go one way or the other on this. I do think it's still a shame, though, because, yeah, he could have evolved even even beyond this. I just think that is the nature of doing something more and the potential here. Like the Bruce Willis version, I'm like, this is He wasn't writing any of that music. He was just performing it. I'm like, okay, man, like there's no evolution to be had here. You would have just been performing covers. Like as a cover band, he's pretty good, but it's like, okay, that's all you got. Robert Downey Jr. I'm like, you know what you're doing. You just have to do it more and really commit to it. And if you did like a prince, then yeah, there would have been an evolution, but it would have taken that time. It would have taken that commitment. So I think it's a shame, but at the same time, we might not have gotten Iron Man. We might not have gotten his whole new career because he would have gone towards the music side of things. We know what it takes out of musicians. the hell that what that is wet world have looked like because this is 2004 and Iron Man came out in oh oh wait okay so it's just four years which means he started filming they had a film two years prior so yeah okay so this Iron Man came no, they filmed one year prior. They only filmed the year before. It was was 07. Who was this Evan? Really? No. Hold. Yeah, yeah, this was the beginning of Marvel. They weren't that far ahead of themselves. that's right. It was the absolute beginning of Marvel in that sense. you're right. I told you about that. That's true. yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. Anyway. Most films are only filmed the year before. Post is not that epic. It's only if they, mean, things grind to a halt if they're doing reshoots and all that fun stuff. And then it takes two years, but the plan is always just to shoot the year before, not a ridiculous amount of time before for most of these things. So last thing, what was, truly not important, what was our respective favorite song that wasn't a cover? on this album. What's your status? No, I want to hear yours first. Because I know you got more than one. No, no, I have a favorite. have a favorite. It was hard to choose. I had to re-listen to four of the tracks to like break to like winnow it down between those four. But my all time favorite is the third track, Kimberly Glides. vacation, holiday, a strange way to save a family I sat beside this brother's pride for the last ride nose dive, hellfire, my lifeline didn't survive blind rage set the stage to say I'll never love again Kimberly Glatz in her arms are cactus angels My own big shots float around Guess this is her home now I'm a stepping for a man who understands Things of godless heart, this pitiful nature Just settling for the winter That is my favorite. like that one. That one actually grew on me. will say you mentioned re-listening a few times and I listened to the entire album one and a half times and then individual songs multiple times. And that one surprised me. Is that the right word? I don't know if it was surprised though. I think it just grew on me. I think that's what it is. I think this is an album that will grow on you if you do listen to it more than once. The Glide was solid. I like little clowns, just... Yeah. because it's very much a... It's the closest to an actual poppy song that is on this album. It actually is maybe that's what it is. It's just like okay. This is a digestible little the most digestible little chunk Okay. All right All of my tears The band to be heard are missing Where the bright Why aren't you kissing? And if you think I Old and cryptic, please Never leave here You might just turn the world around It's actually fun a little bit and like none of the other songs are fun. Except the cover. The Yes cover is a little bit fun, it's, um you know, even the other cover, the Charlie Chaplin smile is, is, is a very, it's a moving song. Yeah. It's a, it's a really good rendition, but it's like, it's not happy boppy upbeat at all. Lord up your face with gladness To trace of sadness Although a tear Maybe ever so near That's the time You must keep on trying Smile, what's the use of crying? You'll find that life is still worthwhile If you just you So it's like that is not the kind of song it's not the kind of album this is. Oh, man, that Jack Hammer is going. Yeah, it's going, it's going now. So we're going to wrap this up. But I will say, funnily enough, The Futurist is my least favorite track on the whole. Really? do not like the. What don't you like about it? What's the reaction? ah It's just It's boring It's the one song where I'm like I do I feel like even the opaqueness of the lyrics is to like the opaqueness is on the nose if that makes sense He's like he's trying too hard on the lyrics to be like kind of clever it but fanciful and I'm like no not doing it for me. I don't like the melody It's it's mildly catchy, but not in a good way. I don't know everything about that song. It's that song and Hannah are the two skippables for me. I always want to skip those two tracks. Oh, that's the one right before the second to last one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is this doesn't have a daughter named? Yeah You might be so sorry Hannah, if that's you. The song does not do it. The song, might be, you might be lovely, but the song does not do it for me. And anybody out there knows our DJ or if anyone out there knows our DJ or anyone at his camp Please send them this episode and tell them if he wants to come on and defend or concur with anything We've said we will gladly have them and we promise to get rid of the jackhammer in that episode anyway guys I mean, we'll try, but I don't know how likely it's gonna be. So again, this has been brought to you by, from LA, brought to you by LA. That's right. They are the proud, the proud and vocal sponsor of this episode, as you can hear in the background. thanks for listening everybody. Please make sure to hit that follow or subscribe button. really helps this podcast grow. Leave a rating and or review. We really appreciate that as well. Suggest us to a friend or family member. We ultra appreciate that if you can. Word of mouth is the best way for any podcast to grow. And you can also follow us on Substack, entertainmentstudios.com. Don't forget to go vote in the poll for that wine trivia question of the week that we did earlier and find us on entertainmentstudios.com. If you'd like to support this podcast, you can become a paid subscriber on Substack.$2 a month gets you access to everything. We have pairing directories that chronicle all our pairings that we have ever done historically, only available to the subscribers. But you can do that $2 a month or $19.60 a year. Or for the big time spenders out there, you can become a founding member or what we like to call our producers, which are the people who can pay $50 a year, just one payment of$50 a year. And you get to commission an episode, tell us what to do on one episode. You also get a shout out every episode. So on that note, shout out to our three current producers, Jessica Mason, who we mentioned earlier, who was on this podcast and got to talk to us about the Duncan Jones movie Moon, where we have the Zinfandel clone wine. Let's go listen to that episode. Jessica Mason is on Substack as well, monsteroftheweek.substack.com. She's a graphic novelist, author, novelist. She's amazing. horror and fantasy extraordinaire. Go check out Jessica on Substack. Also, Paul Callum Kiarian, who has his own podcast, Wine Talks with Paul K. Go check that out. It's better than ours. And he's been doing this for a lot longer than we have. And last but not least, Kate Ruschel of survivesonwine.substack.com. Go check her out. She is a Portuguese wine expert and she does a lot. of these amazing visual tasting notes that she hand designs all the time and there I love those I love those pieces so go check her out those are our producers thanks so much for listening everybody we will be back in another week with another wine and entertainment pairing boy y'all been turnt ain't meant ciao until then later Thanks to you Give peace a chance Cause it's time, it's time, in time with your time Oh we are saved Give me some chance Such a I'm singing And now for the wine trivia question of the week. What does the bright red ruby red color of a red wine suggest? Again, what does the bright ruby red color of a red wine suggest? This is a versus a blue color instead kind of idea. Does the red ruby purple, blue, blue, blue, blue, blue purple. It's more purple than blue. So make sure you say blue purple. Thank you. Oh shit, you're right. All right, I'm taking that again. Cut that. And now for the wine jury question of the week. What does... I'm like, I don't know what blue wines you're drinking, but maybe that's why you're not feeling well, right? Maybe it, maybe it. Don't tell people. I'm in great spirits, great health.