Wine and...Music: THE CIVIL WARS (2013) w/ Maria Banson - Part 2

Make sure to listen to Part 1 where we discuss the history of the band, the album, and talk about the wines we chose to pair with it!

Today, we go track by track through the album to showcase just how lovely every single song is, and what a tragedy it was that the band fell apart in the making of the album.

We're joined by San Francisco-based Sommelier and music-trained vocalilst MARIA BANSON, writer of the BRUNELLO BOMBSHELL Substack and podcaster of THE WINE PRESS news.


THE WINES:
Maria's Wine Pairing:
2019 G.D. Vajra Barolo Albe
A rush of red berries, raspberries, and red currants is wrapped by a layer of sweet spices. The mouthfeel opens with a gorgeous balance, great energy and refined tannins, and the aftertaste echoes the aromatics with lingering complexity.

Dave's Wine Pairing:
2020 Heritage de Saint-Mont Saint Mont
An interesting wine from the little known Saint-Mont region, composed of 65% Gros Manseng, 30% Petit Courbu and 5% Arrufiac. Pear and crisp green apple with a hint of gunflint.

Dallas' Wine Pairing:
2020 Napa Valley Ribolla Gialla, Matthiasson Vineyard
The 2021 is available to order direct from the winery, but the 2020 can still be found online at various stores willing to ship! An "orange wine" made in the ancient style of Northern Italy.

Chapters

• 2:37 Track 1: The One That Got Away
• 10:01 Track 2: I Had Me a Girl
• 14:29 Track 3: Same Old, Same Old
• 21:54 Track 4: Dust to Dust
• 27:00 Track 5: Eavesdrop
• 35:02 Track 6: Devil's Backbone
• 39:22 Track 7: From This Valley
• 42:09 Track 8: Tell Mama
• 47:55 Track 9: Oh Henry
• 52:50 Track 10: Disarm
• 58:36 Track 11: Sacred Heart
• 1:03:28 Track 12: D'Arline
• 1:10:39 Wrap Up!

Transcript

0:00

Do I love And I'm going to feel You think that Say say He's Dave and I'm Dallas and we have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes they're on point and sometimes they go down better with a glass of wine. Join us. This is the wine and podcast. Welcome back everybody to part two of our coverage of the civil wars album by the band, the civil wars. This was their second and final album coming out in 2013. Please go check out part. one, where we cover the entire history of the band, their dissolution. This is considered one of the great breakup albums ever made. They were not a romantic couple, but this is still considered a breakup album. If you've never heard of the Civil Wars, if you've never heard of this album, we definitely think you should go take a listen and you'll listen to you'll hear a few clips as we go through part two, because now for part two, we're going to go track by track through this album. But also check out part one to know about the wines that we've decided to pair with this album and why. And to learn all about our very special guest who was joining us both in part one and today in part two, Maria Banson, a certified sommelier from San Francisco and a musically trained vocalist, which is why she wanted to talk about music this time. Maria also runs the Brunello Bombshell Substack, which is a sub stack where she does wine and movie and wine and TV pairings. She wanted to do something a little different by bringing music onto the wine and the podcast, since we also expand out to do music and comics and movie and TVs. so many things. And also make sure to check out her The Wine Press podcast, where she does 15 minutes every week of roundup of news in the wine industry. If you're interested in the wine industry, links for all that will be in the description of this episode down below. You can also find her sub stack at Brunello bombshell dot sub stack. Also, hey, while you're at it, make sure to hit that follow button and subscribe if you never have done so. And you can also find us on sub stack wine and sub stack.com. Find us on all the socials, usually wine and pod wine and pod. Now we're going to part two. Here we go. Track by track through the album. So Maria, track number one, the one that got away. This is a doozy of an opening track. Once you I mean, I didn't know the history of this band and I listened to it and I was like, shit. I was like, there is something happening in this track. And I'm again, I'm uncomfortable. I don't think I want to be in this room like it's so much. Me, I'm like, don't mind me. I'm in the corner listening to every word. Yeah. And I mean, I'm like, where is the exit? And can I get there without anyone noticing I'm moving? Like that is that is my approach to this song. But your take on this track, as an opener and as a track. my gosh. So if you go to Barton Hollow, it just seems so placid and pleasant and nothing could possibly go wrong in Barton Hollow except when people are like kind of mad at each other. And then you put that on just immediately with a different sound in that bringing the electric guitar in and hearing that almost off the bat. That is a huge warning sign. that this is not gonna be the same album as Barton Hollow. This, feel like is some of JPW's best singing on the album. I feel like this was probably one of the first things that got recorded because, they're really into it. And this will be a theme that I'll try to bring up a little bit more later on, but this is one of the times we actually get to hear him more. so you're saying there's too much joy. Are you? Are you? I'm not thinking anything. I'm not let Jenny in that smiley face do all the talking for me. Right. I will say track two is probably the one that's a little more like his big because it's mostly him on track two. But we'll get to that in a moment. But Dallas, this track. Yeah, I think her voice, it strikes the primary note for this album. It's so emotive. I think her vocal shine. I'm gonna say best here because of what she's doing. You've got the expected themes of regret. It's yeah, it's fantastic. It's it's it's bittersweet. You know, it's it's relatable. That's the other thing. It is very relatable to and a great way to kind of onboard into the album. Yes. And I do think vocally, I think you just hear the passion, like you said, they're into it. Right? And so that's what you hear. I do think there are equal vocal performances elsewhere in the album, but this one just hits in a way that is a little unnerving how well it hits. And another fun fact, not only is there the electric guitar, but there's no percussion in this song until the final 30 seconds. And holy motherfucker when it comes in. When you only have me in my mind It's like coming in the air tonight, like drum drop. I mean, it smacks down and you're like, what, what, what? And then the song just ends. after because it's only 30 seconds of that. then that's it. They're like, and we're done. You're sort of like, OK. So this is this is just really well structured, well put together as an opener. It primes you for what the rest of this. I'm honestly it might have primed you a little too much because nothing gets quite this intense for the rest of the album afterwards. But as an opener, yeah, it's an excellent, excellent opener. I did want to read out that Joy Williams explained that this song pays homage to regret. quote, nearly everybody I've come across has somebody in their life that they wonder what life would be like if they'd never met that person. By the way, guys, this track is called The One That Got Away. And the lyrics are literally like, I wish you were the one that got away. I mean, that's what this kind of song is. It's one of those where you're like, damn, I did not know there was a slam that hard, where it's like, I would rather have never known you than have to go through what I'm going through right now with you. And you're just. I mean, it's like, I wish you were the one that like this had never even begun. It's it's rough. Quote, it's that sliding door moment, she says in the blink of an eye, everything could change either for the positive or the negative. Charlie Peacock, the producer admitted in a behind the scenes video that he didn't connect the lyrics to the situation immediately. no. Quote. Quote. It really wasn't until they finished the bulk of their recording and gone off to Europe and I was sitting with the tracks alone and realized, my, it's all here. They really aren't getting along. A genius thing to do is to chronicle the destruction, demise, deterioration of a creative or personal relationship on to a onto an LP EP. that is there for the world to kind of digest that just does amazing numbers. And then you just part ways. That's the way it should be done. OK, I'm just going to say that. That's the way it should have been done. Like I would love to hear them further collaborate and be great in great spirits. But in reality, the fact that this is the punctuation on their relationship is brilliant. It's brilliant. And in some breakups, you remain friends and some don't. And, you know, it's sad, especially when one side would like the reconciliation. Like they're like, this is stupid. It doesn't have to be this way. The other side is not willing. you know, and by the way, that that Reddit post, my favorite thing was going to that Reddit post and looking at all the comments and the sort of secondary theories. that's just that needs its own docu-series just to wade into who did that and why, because it seems like it must have been a team of people. Couldn't have just been one person, but maybe. All right. Track two, right? And I will say to close that out, to close this out, to finish Charlie Peacock's quote, he does say they mostly kept their cool while recording this. I co-wrote the one that got away with them in the studio. And I never had any sense that they were anything but respectful as co-creators. And from my perspective, really at the top of their game. So inside the process, I think they were both all about the art and nothing else. You have to be with attitudes like that. mean, you're funneling the thing you're currently going through into song. That's generally what we think an artist's job is. And they've done it expertly. It's fantastic. Tractive. All right. Track number two. I had me a girl. I had me girl who taught me those things a young man should know. Down on my knees and begging I'd plead to learn a little bit more All that woman told me to pray I saw heaven every day And all she could learn This has a similar power to the first song, but it's a little more traditional country slash folky in its structure, much more JPW driven. I think you can tell both in the music, the lyrics and his singing. He's very heavy on the song and does a very good job with it, but it has more blues country, right, to it. And this one produced by Rick Rubin, by the way, this track. So it is an interesting. Another power produced working. Yes. Let me just read this out. says working with the Southern production company, 1504 pictures, Joy and John Paul White released a behind the scenes video for the album. Quote, there were moments when John Paul would pick up a guitar and he enjoy would transport to a different place. Director Mark Slagle of 1504 pictures said. You can see it when John Paul plays I had me a girl in the control room and joy starts moving with the melody. There was definitely a creative push pull, but watching them grow a song from nothing giving and taking was incredibly. remember watching that video when it came out and it was it was it cemented why these two worked so well together because that was the sort of chord they were sort of connected creatively in that space. Well, and it sounds like. Yeah, and it sounds like this song, like it went JPW's way. Like he just started playing and they went with the flow. And then they had a song at the end of it. And it's a good song. you know, thematically, like you could say this song could thematically stick with the rest of the album in terms of like, it just doesn't have to be a romantic boy and girl. Right. It's like this could still be about the same thing, but it still feels that classic traditional. is about, you know, I had me a girl, I had me a man, kind of a country song. So your two thoughts on this, Maria, what do you think of this as a second track? I feel like this is the evolved Pokemon version of the track off Barton Hollow, which is, I've got this friend. This is still, or still oddly being flirty with each other while they're talking about all of this. But at the same time, there's something much more dark and sinister bubbling under the surface and that text that is not to be ignored. I feel like this track specifically has so much direct link to Barton Hollow, but it does evolve in the sense that it just gets bigger and emotions are more heightened, instrumentation is a lot bigger. And this is the track that reminds me that the two of them just sound great together vocally. The way that they harmonize, even though the tone of their instruments is very different. They just happen to find each other in parallels. They can go together. It's like they're there and they do it. They wail when they sing and yet it matches. I mean, that's their their vibrato. Normally if you have their vibrato's, find a way to kind of just sync up. And it's weird. It's very weird. Well, and they have a great instinct of who pulls back and who pushes forward like as one comes in and then fades out while the other one fades in. And it's just fucking seamless. It's fascinating how good they are together. I think the song definitely is more assertive, emotionally, I suppose, and tone. You get the dynamic guitar riffs, you get that call and response thing you'll often get in male led blue grassy stuff sometimes. yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, that bluesy steel thing at underpending and all just, yeah, it's very pretty song. assertive, but pretty. Yeah. Well, speaking of pretty track number three, same old, same old. This is the first slower, sadder feeling song, you know, that actually feels sadder in the music itself, not just not just slightly deranged and ready to kill someone. But this actually feels like weepy in its way. It's about loving someone, but you can't do the same old same old routines with them. So, Maria. What do you think about this track? You just rubbed your hands together. This is probably my favorite track on the album. there it is. And I'm going to tell If you think that I stay in this same old same old And I'm glad that this is number three because you do need, I had me a girl and you need the one that got away to really warm you up into this fact and to sit everybody down and tell everybody why mom and dad are fighting. That's a great way to put that actually. It made me acquire come to the living room, there's ice cream. Yes. Right, stop listening to a scream in the other room. Now let's have a conversation. But then when you get, and Dave, you read the text from that second verse earlier, just, there's something that hits hard about that. There is no possible way that you can write that, let alone sing it night after night without feeling so deeply, deeply hurt. I feel like this is one of the more universal themes of the album, but it really comes to life here. Getting into my nerdy musical, musicalogical bend here. Yeah. In that second verse, there's a lot of tension and a lot of simmering that has to boil over at some point. And you can hear it in the way that both Joy and John Paul are almost spitting the lyrics at the start of that second like daggers. Yes. And then you get to the point where the pot boils over. What is it that Joy sings? I'm gonna name names. I'm gonna call us out. And that's the first time that she goes into that register. there's no point of hiding anything anymore. From that point on, it's just a release of emotion that still has so much point to it. But it just, man, it is a million knife attacks. I think for me, this song does, I think you're right, Maria. It is kind of, the signature of the album in a weird way. It is the first time they're exploring the toxicity and just sort of laying the toxicity bare of this relationship, which, you know, is again, very intimate and very sort of vulnerable. I am like you said, to be going through this and having to kind of seeing through this every night must have been tormenting. or cathartic, you know, you never know, depending on the kind of artist they are. You know, honestly, you never know depending on the kind of artist I do think that sort of that the slower introspective thing really does come at track was this track three of twelve. So in pulling out the first quarter, ending that first act out with this kind of toxicity. because that's the only way I can describe this song. really is. As you said, mom and dad are going to show you who's been cheating, who's been stealing, who's been doing X, Y and Z. So just hold on to your hats, kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a quote here from Joy about the song. And she says that this isn't an I'm leaving you song. It's a vulnerable confession of I don't want to leave. I want to work on this. with you. Having said that, she continued, someone once told me a story about long term relationships, to think of them as a continent to explore. I could spend a lifetime backpacking through Africa, and I would still never know all there is to know about that continent. To stay the course, to stay intentional, to stay curious and connected, that's the heart of it. But it's so easy to lose track of that trail to get tired to want to give up to want a new adventure. It can be so easy to lose sight of the goodness and mystery within the person sitting right in front of you. That continent idea inspires me and makes me ache when it comes to hurting a little less. To know that it happens to all of us. What I'm realizing now is that sometimes the same old same old can actually be rich, worthwhile, and a great adventure. And that those were her thoughts on this song, which makes it all the more tragic, doesn't it? When did she say that? You know what? I don't have a date. OK, for it. was it was a quote that was on one of the like song meaning websites, you know, someone had pulled that quote and stuck it there and I was like, OK. And so I grabbed I was like, that's a good quote. So I grabbed that and put it down. But I'm not sure when my guess is this is all retrospective. It sounds like a very retrospective quote. Yeah. Yeah. But. the idea that this was, and I do agree with her in the sense that this song, it is the core of this album, it is a heart and soul, but it is also a bit of a plea. know, because you don't say, I can't do the same old same old, if you're gonna leave someone and you don't care, you just leave. You know, you don't sing this song to them. It is a plea as well as a ultimatum in its way, it's both. And that's always the tragedy of ultimatums like that, where it's like, I can't keep doing this, but I want. to keep doing things with you, just it can't be this. It can't be this routine, right? And I will say also, my only other comment is you mentioned how this was a great sequencing to come after the first two tracks on this album. And this album is just about one of the most perfectly sequenced albums I've listened to pretty much ever. That was something that stood out to me. The only, we'll get to the final tracks, but initially when I listened to this album, I did not like the final three tracks. It was like the first three quarters of the album, perfect sequencing. And you hit those final three tracks and I was like, I think they just ran out of material, was my thought. And something about it didn't sit right with me. Knowing the history of the album and after multiple listens, I now really, really like the sequencing of the final three, but we'll get there. when we get to the final bits. But first, track number four, Dust to Dust. They don't fool me You've been lonely too Let me in the world You build around Can't let him win, I'm burning Let me hold your hand and dance around around you Apparently it was going to be on the Hunger Games 2 soundtrack, Catching Fire, which I know they had a song on the first Hunger Games movie as well, not from this album, but from their previous album. But this one was meant to be on Hunger Games 2 Catching Fire, but it dropped off at the last moment. It just didn't fit and they went with another song. But fun little fact, you guys, what do you think of Dust to Dust? Maria? This, I think, they were trying to target to be the big single from the album. And it's pretty clear. It sounds the most commercial, but it's still them in a way. And I feel like this is where Joy started really sinking her teeth into dictating, no, we are going to go in this direction because it will move us money. And something about that instinct was right, because it does sound like it is a worthy successor to something like Poison and Wine. I didn't know that this was supposed to be in Catching Fire. I am now thinking about the re-recorded version of Safe and Sound. Because Taylor Swift has been going through and re-recording all of For All Masters, she did do a re-record of Safe and Sound. The first time the Civil Wars collaborated with Taylor, they were billed as the Civil Wars. But for the re-record, they were billed as individuals and they were not in the same room together to record. Yeah. Anyway, it's just you can you can feel the pop sense and I'm glad for it. And it just it blows my mind that this feels cinematic. This couldn't have been an incredibly song. I don't. I think that's what think. Dust to dust coming in at track four. We're starting act two. If we break this up in four acts, starting act two on a like you said, a poppier note. You know, I didn't know it was supposed to be included in the Hunger Games film, but it also sounds like the thing a producer came in and said, guys, I have an idea. What if we open up our potential audience base and revenue stream by writing this cinematic version of what we do? And that happens very often. with these acts, know, these, these sometimes there's a whole lot of money in the country and bluegrass stuff and you open yourself up to more pop stuff. And like you said, with Joy's desire to kind of broaden her horizons in terms of her career and go more pop, it makes sense that this is a natural way to start off act two of this album. Yeah, it's cinematic. It's not a great song to me, but. it's a great way to kind of open act to. Yeah, yeah, it's very solid. I have nothing really to add on the song itself. It's a very nice song, very pleasant. think coming off of track number three, it's good to have a more of a little ditty rather than something as heavy as track number three. So again, great sequencing. And the only quote I have for this one is apparently the Civil Wars wrote the anthem lonely one late Night in Birmingham, England. Joy Williams explains, sometimes you come across somebody who thinks they're hiding their pain, but if we're all honest, nobody is very good at it. And these two should know. According to Joy, when she penned this song with White, they decided to change the pronoun at the end of the song when it goes from the me or you or he or she, can't remember what it was, but they changed it to we and just the final two utterances of the main line. And they changed it to we because they decided to change it because we wanted to represent that we all experience loneliness and this kind of loneliness in our lives. So all right. Track number five eavesdrop. So this one is to me, to my ears, at the very least, this is the most complex song, both in its arrangement. It's got the most layers. It's got the most going on in it. And then even lyrically, it's the least straightforward. lyrically. It's the most where it's not just telling you exactly what they're thinking, but it's using a little bit of song poetry and metaphor and not just digging right for the heart. And I really, when I first listened to this album, this was one that I could never remember how it went because it wasn't as simple of a memorable tune. It goes through a couple of different shifts throughout the song. And so I would remember the song, at least I would always see eavesdrop. And of course, eavesdrop is also not what you think the song is called when you listen to the lines. And so I would always look at the tracks and I'd be like, which one is East Drop? And then the moment it would start playing, I'd be like, right, right, right. But it took multiple listens for me to remember what this was. That said, on future listens, this became one of my favorites, not the favorite, but one of my favorites. I really appreciate the song now. I think this track, this album needed something that was a bit more multilayered like this. But Maria, what do you think of East Drop? I'm right with you. The Bare Bones EP that came out, I think, much later after the Civil War album was released, had a very different version of this song. Yes. That, the just very simplified. Yeah. Very dialed way back. That was like the John Paul version of this song. And then this is 100 percent the Joy version of this song. Yeah. I don't So when I was talking about the, one of the reasons why I wanted to pair the album with a Barolo was because I wanted that super tannic quality of Nibiolo. And I was talking to my husband, you know, I'm doing this thing. I'm pairing, I am going on a podcast and I'm pairing the album with it. And I wanted to something that felt aggressive, but something you want to nurse for a little bit. And I can't decide if I want to go to Barolo or Barbaresco. Barolo was known as the king of Nibiolo. Barbaresco is the queen. So. the next question out of my husband's mouth was, well, who won? And I think in this instance, won. Yeah, for sure. For sure. This is the battle that Joy's structure and the overall production really benefited from having something complex and not just lay down on a blanket and reminisce. It does feel the least poppy. Not just strum some guitar. I mean, it does feel... That's that's sort of that's a bold statement to say she won because it is the least poppy of the tunes to my ear. So it really does kind of harken back to that idea that from this sort of dissonance of these two instruments, we we get some sort of magic. And the song is kind of magical. It is a little magical. It is a little magical. It's my favorite song of the album. Yeah, definitely my favorite song of the album. It. Whatever my notes here, yeah, it's it's got this lux upbeat tempo. It's the thrill of intimacy and connection lyrically. You know, it's it's a bit more somber. I'm sorry, it's a bit more standout than playful than the somber lyrics of most of the songs. But yeah, my. favorite track on the album, probably by a lot. Yeah, beautiful. The only thing I can add, I've already said my take on it. But the only thing I'll add is apparently the duo did say it won't probably joy said because John Paul didn't say jack shit about it. But joy probably said that they took this track to Charlie Peacock, their producer. And quote, he helped with arrangements and really helped take the song to a totally different place. Sometimes as an artist, you can't see what needs rearranging when you're so in it. So Charlie brought that perspective almost like an eavesdrop within an eavesdrop. So and so probably that bare bones version was what they took to him, right? That one that it does feel very JPW. And then he was the one probably with a lot of help and and let's do it from Joy, you know, where she was like all in and JPW was like, know any of this, you know, and so then this, this track, but it is, it stands out for that. And it stands out even in their whole discography, not that it's a big discography, but in the, the very short discography they had, this stands out as like, yes, they did something different. They took what they do to places that they hadn't yet. And yeah, I only, I only wish JPW could have embraced that. And even if they only did an album once every five years or something like go do the different thing every once in a while. And now you're doing own thing. And it always amazes me when people can't find it like figure their balance. Do your one great thing and move on. They left their mark in history. I would be very impressed to see if they ever enter the same room again. Yeah, yeah, I don't think so. I think after all this time, you almost can't. I mean, maybe in their senior, like, you know, twilight years on near their death beds. might have a that money tour when they're 70 years old, you know. Or you just like you do let go of things because you realize it's over. Like, you know, it's like in your final, in your final decade or whatever, like a lot of people reconcile and especially in music, I've noticed that rivalries and falling outs in music, it's always when they're fucking 80 something. that they reconcile. And there's something about it where it's like, they will not let go of that grudge until they're like, we either die with it or we reconcile and something about actually finally being close to dying with it, that people are willing to do something Dave, the X factor I think you're omitting here is when they're 80, they usually have kids and grandkids who want the stream of income to continue after they die. And so, and not just that, the production company, the rights holders, like you'll hear those older guys talk about all the time, those tours, those companies come to them very often to say, hey, don't you think it's time to bury the hatchet? And that kind of gets things moving and going. So I don't think it's just as simple as them sort of wanting to, you know, get rid of the old grudges. Most of the rivalries that I'm talking about aren't things that would require that though. Like they're like a guitarist that isn't required. for the reunion, like for the big star to, and the guitarist isn't the one holding the grudge, it's the big star. And somehow later down the line, they have a reconciliation, they don't do a tour together. They just, if you read up on their history, it's like they did, they have recently reconciled after 30, 40 years of like not being able to be in the same room together. So there are plenty of stories where that doesn't enter into it. I think the money's up. I think the money's a great. OK, OK. OK, my own personal job. All right. You keep your cynicism about you. What can I say? What are we all right? Track number six. Devil's murdering Americana. This is the that's my that's murdering Americana. This is this is the Appalachia Americana huge, like very. To me, it reminds me of something like Carpenter's Daughter, if anyone's familiar with that song. yeah! Where it's like, dark story, but with a very catchy, very repetitive tune, right? That just like goes, but then as you churn through the verses with that repetition, it just gets bleaker and bleaker and bleaker. I'm falling in love with men Please don't take that sinner from me don't take that sinner from me lord, I'm falling for someone who's nothing like you He's raised on the edge of the devil's black mold I just wanna take him home I just wanna take him home So yeah, Maria, what are your thoughts on this one? You took the words right out of my mouth. The murdery Americana is going to live rent free in my head forever. Thank you for that. That is just, it drives until it has nowhere else to drive. It feels like a session song, if I'm honest. It feels like the kind of song when you're in a session. If you guys are familiar with them, sort of creative music, sort of composition sessions, you will just. Start something and go, take a break, start something and go. By the end of it, you sometimes have these just crazy tunes that are dependent upon the driving, either percussion or some dominant instrument. And this song just has that driving, haunting, murdery. I may have to write a script called Murdery Americana now because I just love the way it sounds. Murdery Americana, that's what it is. And the only, I've got a quote here from Joy. Believe it or not, it's her tune. Which actually did really surprise me because this felt so JPW But she has a quote here that quote I was doing my makeup in the tiled bathroom upstairs with my newborn miles in a yellow rocking bassinet next to me I started singing and Turned on the voice memo app on my iPhone so I wouldn't forget it as I sang miles started. She's my people I have like 3,000 voice memos of partial songs and nonsense on my phone. Yeah, so Yes, yes. And as I sang, Miles started cooing along with me, not on pitch, mind you, but I'd move a note and he'd move a note. I'm never deleting that voice memo. It's become one of my favorites. And then she brought that into the studio for them to record afterwards and became a song. A lot of people think this feels there's a song from Barton Hollow. You might know this, Maria. Off the top of my head, I can't remember which, but a lot of people feel like this could be a sequel to it or like a different POV of the same song. Okay, hold on. I'm gonna look at that tracklist again because I know what you're talking about, but I just, the track off the top of my head is gone. Sure, sure, sure. I think that sound though is what is so pretty about Barton Hollow. What makes it easy to relax into that album is that, mean, admittedly a little bit less murdery, but that... Except for this one song that apparently like that this could be a sequel to. So it's got its one murdery song even on Barton Hollow. It's not. title track is it? I've listened to that album once and it was not recently. But this apparently there was one where it's like it was talking about something and then this track could have literally been another character in that same like a different POV of the same thing like a kind of sequel to it. should have written this down I totally didn't but just so you know guys go go Google online this song which is Devil's Backbone and what it is a sequel to and side by side comparison and let us know what you think. There you go. All right. Track number seven from this valley, the one they won the Grammy. The is the anthem. And this is interesting. So this is the oldest song of theirs on this album. It was penned before Barton Hollow came out. So Joy. Joy recalls, even though we didn't have our own recording of it, we started performing it live and it became a fan favorite. It made sense to finally put it on an album. One of my favorite moments on stage every night was singing the acapella part together. It's like a thumbnail of the whole Civil War's experience because they go from just, you know, playing this tune at shows that they sort of you know, roughly cropped together to it becoming a fan favorite and then ultimately making an album and then ultimately winning them the Grammy. Like it just has this it's just perfect little thumbnail of what they did and this very specific moment in time and then nothing else. So yeah, I think it's great song. It makes sense that it won the Grammy and it probably contributed to JPW's disillusioned. meant with the whole experience, maybe it's popularity, at least possibly. Do we know Maria, if you know how religious are these two people? Do we know if they have a heavily religious background? I mean, they grew up in religious territories, probably. If I remember correctly, I think Joy comes from a Mormon Yes, I think she is Mormon. Okay. Is she Mormon? Yeah. I could be remembering that wrong, but I think I heard a whisper or read something about a Mormon link somewhere. OK, hold on. OK, because this is a heavily like it's about, you know, coming to Jesus type of thing. He's waiting for you type of a thing. Yeah. So it's fun. It's not a proselytizing per se type of song. It's just a fun, gospely country rock rump. But it has that like when you listen to the lyrics, like it's very happily religious. you know, to just be happily passively religious and singing about like a song that brings them joy, which but made me but I'm pumped joy, but made me kind of pause for a moment and be like, huh, I wonder how early I mean, these guys are both like JPWs from like into country and bluesgrass and whatnot. Joyce from California grew up in California at the very least, but I'm not sure where in California. So connection to Mormonism, but apparently a devoutly Christian home, whatever that means. Okay. OK. Got it. Got it. Makes a lot of sense. All right. Track number eight. Tell Mama, a song written by Clarence Carter, Marcus Daniel and Wilbur Terrell. It is best known for its 1967 recording by Etta James. And for those of you who aren't like can't hear the song in your head right now, go put that on Spotify. The moment the trumpets come in, you're going to know exactly which and it is a credit to them. for attempting a song that is synonymous with one singer, because this is the only version of that song. Like, I'm sorry, there are great covers that come along, but Etta James' version of this song is just stamped and cemented. It is impossible for me not to hear her version of this song whenever I hear a cover. Even this builder's cover is very fresh and very cool. Well, I was gonna say, although that's the point, did this very differently than what that version was. is the way to do that. I think that's the only way to it. is only way to do that. Now, there is an earlier version that predates Etta James by one year by Carter himself, the writer of the song Clarence Carter, called Tell Daddy. Because it's him. It's a him singing it. it's Tell Daddy and it's not as good like the... The brass section is different in the edit. They brought that in for the Etta James version. It's still the highlight, but everyone, should go listen to the Tell Daddy one. It's interesting how similar it is to the Etta James. It really was. He laid that down and then gave it to Etta James to take to musical history, essentially, from that day. It's amazing because that happens. So you get dual or sometimes triplicate versions of songs in the era in which they came out. For instance, Gladys Knight and the tips did that you're wondering how new did it whatever that song is. What's the title of song? Heard it through the grapevine. And it was originally done. Yeah, when you when you know that's in my head. It's always on on fast forward. But Marvin Gaye originally did the song. And his version was popular. But you know, Gladys Knight came along and just blew it out of the fucking water and that's the version now. But anyway, Tell Mama is a great fresh cover. It's fun, it's a palate cleanser. I love the Civil Wars because they feel like one of the best cover artists that nobody's heard of. Their covers are so dynamic, it feels rooted in their own style and yet they get the memo of the song in a very unexpected way and I think this was... If I can speak at a turn here, feel like Joy and JPW each got their own covers to really like, it's a different kind of a situation. I think this is the point where I realized that JPW like truly peaced off of this album. He was barely on this song. It was all Joy, all spectacle. she really doesn't know what power she had. She She worked her wiles and you can tell in the way that the song is arranged too. It's meant to highlight everything she can possibly do. Having had a baby with an expanded lower range, all of that's just resonant and pretty. And if you're going to bring it out, this is the way to do it. I do what you choose and watch you do All about it, dear See me Make everything alright Yeah, it's fun. And it is. It's funny because this is hers. And of course, we're about to do the other cover in two more songs, which is definitely JP's. yeah, for sure. Right. The Smashing Pumpkins cover that we're going to get to here. But this is hers. And you're right. She gets the memo of what Tell Mama is about, because even though it's vastly it's night and day, it's literally taking what Ed James did, turning it on its head. But then it's about like, tell mama, I will make her better. Right. You know, but it But it's singing it from a point where it's like, things have gotten bad. Like that's why you have to tell mama. And so this is a bit more of a dirge and a bit more of a like, now that we've made it here and this is all very sad, let's try and make it better. And it's just a completely different take while keeping the core of what the song absolutely means. And yeah, highlighting everything that she can do with that. It's great. I'm gonna say, sorry, now. I like this better. You can be wrong and like it. I'm just like today. All right. Track number nine. Henry, let me say that. the one thing I have to say, the Civil Wars wrote this slice of Folsom Blues Rock one week before their debut album, Barton Hollow came out. This is another one that came prior to. the songwriting sessions. And again, as this album gets towards the end, this starts to happen a lot. This is where I think because JPW had pieced out, like writing songs was difficult, like new songs. So they were recording them, they were updating them and evolving them, but they kind of had to dip into a lot of stuff they already Which makes sense for these guys, because they are clearly musicians who have backlogs that you can dip into. So yeah, that makes sense. Right. So they penned this one in the mountains of Salt Lake City during the duo's first Sundance film festival. Williams explained, quote, we conjured up a story about a woman who was married to a philandering man. She is begging her man to level with her and letting him know she can only take so much, Allah, it's going to kill me or it's going to kill you. So getting a little back to the same old roots here, right? Kind of kind of coming back to that again. And once again, you know, she's singing to the man. So. We're still right in the heart of this album and its topics. So, Henry, Maria, what you think? I'm so mad that the Bare Bones version didn't end up on the album. I'm so bitter about it. If you listen to both tracks back to back, listen to the album version first and then listen to the Bare Bones EP version. Henry, you got something to tell me. Everybody been saying you've been running away. Henry, have you got something to tell me? Everybody been saying you've You should know that we don't need, no more grief in this tear The difference is slight, but I think it makes a really big change in interpretation. The only change between the two was the key. In a lower, earthier key, O. Henry has more weight. And like we were saying, with Joy's expanded lower range, she digs in. Yes. it that the venom that she has on Tell Mama almost comes out in a different way after Henry. Right. I even though this was written earlier, I do feel like it is a great song to put right after Tell Mama because it heightens all those emotions in a different way. Well, it formalizes them. I will say. Right, I will say as a standalone song, I agree with you. The bare bones version is the better version of this track as like a song you're going to listen to on its own, but sequenced after between Tell Mama and Disarm, the more upbeat version was so necessary between those two where this whole final part of the album would have just been this slow slide into sheer, sheer depression and misery without this one song giving us a little bit. Sacred Heart helps a little bit as well. Yeah. But I like sequencing wise. I like this version where it is better than the bare bones version. But I do agree with you that as a standalone song, that is the bare bones is the superior song. I'm not better at all. It's. Let's see. It's got that, like you said, it's like. It's almost an evolution of the grit and bitterness and venom she had Intel Mama. It's pure emotional narrative and betrayal and longing. And yeah, I think it's I think you're right, Dave. Had this not been a counterpoint at these two songs together, not been a counterpoint. This would have been a very dirty, very sad slide. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. Okay. So track number 10. Now this is the final. This begins the final three songs. And this is where initially the album lost me the first time. The first time or two that I listened to it, where I started to like, I like the songs, but it really felt like, and this is probably to some degree true ran out of material because again, they were struggling to like write anything together and actually get the stuff out. So first we have disarm a cover of a smashing pumpkin song. Everyone disarmed me with me with a smile. Everyone knows the song. Now, ironically, and sadly and poetically, the Smashing Pumpkins were one of the bands that the two bonded together when they first got together, Joy and JPW. So having a cover of one of them on the album that tears them apart was interesting. But this was very much a JPW song. This was his cover. It is like Tell Mama. It takes what the song, the OG song is and takes you to a very different place, a very different delivery, a very different style that in its way though, mean, kind of makes it heavier. Such a part of you just like Tell Mama, where it works really well. Like no shade. As much as I give JPW crap for how he let all this fall apart, again, he's a brilliant musician. You can tell this take on this song. I feel like it's a lot him and it works gangbusters. Maria. This is the song that made me want to bring the album to you guys. So I was watching the Bear season three when Disarmed topped off. And I was thinking to myself watching the scene where it was going on because my mind was a little bit still reeling from the Bear season three. Why is the harmony not here? Because I really missed the harmony. The way that joy just lutes right over everything that JPW was doing in the song is magical. But this is truly JPW's showcase. And you can tell this is this was his baby on the album and this was the one, if this was the last thing he ever recorded with her, I think he's really happy that it's I'd say so too. Like you said, Dave, the idea that they bonded when they initially met over Smashing Pumpkins, that mutual kind of shared love and respect for Smashing Pumpkins, is it's difficult to hear this cover and not think, I'm sure there was some tears shed over this. as this relationship ended and this song is being played because what's actually happening, what Joy is doing, it's this, the only verbiage I have is sort of like she's doing this fairy-like shadowing technique above his dominant vocal. And it's this, it's kind of haunting. And in a similar way that Smashing Pumpkins recordings can be, there's a little haunting kind of airiness to them. I think that holds is is similar in this production, but you're at that thing she does over his vocals is just annoying to me, first of all, because it's so perfect. it's so perfect. Well, I think it's indicative also of why they got along so well together. Because again, this is This is the last song that feels like the old way of them doing things where JPW just does what he wants to do and Joy just knows how to enhance it. Like she comes in and just does her thing and he's like, that's fucking brilliant. This is great. And it was only when she started to be like, OK, now let's try it a couple of other ways and let me bring you things. And he was like, is that what? No, that requires me changing. Right. Right. but yeah, exactly. But this is like it. it just goes to show that even when they did them, quote unquote, his way, I mean, it's just it's brilliant every single time. And the way the fan reaction to this song, too, I've noticed online that a lot of people who are smashing pumpkin fans tend not to like this version. They're really poo pooey about it, which I'm like, what are you going to Because they're like. they think JPW sounds like like someone who can't sing trying to mimic the smashing pumpkins guy is is is I know they're so mean. They're very cruel about it. But then the ones who do come around to liking it is are usually like, you know, that female voice ads, it rounds out the sound that is like that is missing in in even the original and whatnot. And so that tends to be the take on this. But, you know, honestly, even if the fans that just dislike it it doesn't sound like the OG. I'm like, that's the point. It's a cover. Don't just cover it sounding like what the original song is or the interpret takes don't mimic the original thing. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, yeah. But this is a gorgeous haunting song, a haunting version of an already kind of haunting song. So all right. Track number 11, Sacred Heart. Je vais t'attendre là Viendras-tu pour moi Je vais t'attendre là Sur mon toit So this is a song that the Civil Wars wrote one cold night in a Paris flat with the Eiffel Tower in full view. Joy recalled, quote, tall windows, Victorian furniture, and somehow the atmosphere of it all just seeped into the song. So Joy sings the song in French. She recalled, quote, I wrote the words I knew in French and then had a Parisian friend named Renata Pepper. Yes, that's her real name. Look it over later and help me translate. When we recorded the song for the album, I called in a French professor from Vanderbilt named Becky Peterson, who has now become a good friend. An English translation of the start of the song is, when I walk in the street, the street to the sacred heart. So the Sacre Cœur, the Sacred Heart Basilica is a Roman Catholic church in Paris. It is dedicated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. They were back to the Christian religious imagery and topic. An increasingly popular vision of a loving and sympathetic Christ. The church was planned in 1873 with the aim of expiating the spiritual and moral collapse of France, which was felt to have led to the defeat of the French by the Prussians. It was deliberately located on the summit of the Battle of Martyrs Mount, the highest point in the city. So what do we think of this song as the penultimate track, I'm so glad you said something about the ambiance in which it was written because I think this is the only song on the album that is just for the 100%. 100%. You got to give the people a little bit of a vibe-y song, especially when you've got two great musicians and this, you don't need to understand the text, you just need to picture yourself apparently like outside of a rainy window. And to be fair, that do it. Okay, how to say this. No, scratch that. I gonna say something really inappropriate. But yes, for the I'm so curious. For the vibes. It is purely for the vibes. It's just one of my favorite places in Paris, oddly enough. And it is the kind of place where you find yourself wanting And I hate people who play music aloud when they're in public spaces, like I want to fight them vehemently, angrily and aggressively. Not not not playing like a guitar, but yeah, like you're bringing your JBL speaker to get like right, Yeah, jump. No, did I jump in the room? But this is one of those occasions where I wish I had remembered this song the last time I was because it would be the perfect song to play and hear and sort of develop yourself in this space. So yeah, you're right. It is a song purely for the vibes and I'm here for it. They earned it. They've given us great poetry. They've given us great vocals, great harmonies, great textures, great drama, you know, just their dynamic relationship. So I will allot them this second to last. next to last track of just pure vibes. And it's worth it. And I will say I like this song or respect it being here and its placement so much better. I just kind of assumed it was a cover because it was in French. Right. So I was like, this is some French song they just threw on the album for seemingly no reason. And then when I was like, no, they fucking wrote it. That's wild. OK. Well, then. And it is, it's great vibes regardless. And now that it is a proper original song that they did together in happier times, frankly, you know, that was, and it sounds, you can hear it, and yet it's still different than anything they've done before. So it belongs on this last very different Stretching Their Wings album. All right, guys, finale, track number 12, Darlene. So the Civil Wars wrote the song in the studio behind Williams Nashville house on a warm summer day with the windows and doors open. She explained that it quote is a sweet lament of loss and the belief that you'll never be able to love anybody else again. Now the song. Yeah. The song was inspired by one of the letters of note, which Joy found on Twitter. This is a she explained quote, I was struck by the title of the letter written by a famous physicist. named Yeah. And I will say, go look this letter up on Google. I'm serious. It's you will. You will. Reading this letter like I'm tearing up. I read the whole thing and I'm like, holy shit. His life was amazing. Actually, his life was amazing. it was. It was. And this was like he was he after his wife passed, like he was just like completely still devoted to her memory and wrote this letter as just getting all his thoughts out. And it was well after it was like over a year after passing. And this letter is gorgeous. mean, it is exactly what you mute day. It happens in this song is hit mute. I hear hear the I hear the strain coming. Hit me a quick. It's coming. It's coming. I am. I'm little bit. But yeah, go look at that. When you're ready for a cry, just read that letter. I've been crying for the last 45 minutes listening to this album. You want me to Yeah, this letter will make you cry more. But I think this is right. Almost. So I will say that when Joy and JPW, when they recorded the song together, they could hear crows cawing in the background, which Williams named Edgar, Alan, and Poe. She said, this recording and performance of the song is the first and only in existence a work tape recorded simply on an iPhone. Wait, they recorded that? The recording they used was just a mastered version of the iPhone recording they made? The scratch recording. That's correct. Crazy. Correct. I didn't know that that they just did impromptu one day while putting this together. And to make that I hated this as the final track when I first listened to the album, because I'm like, it's again, they're running out of material. And then you get to this and you're like, what even is this? Right. Like, but then knowing what it is, and as you keep listening to the album and start to realize all the themes, not even knowing their backstory, if you just take this album as like, say, a concept album of a relationship breakup, right? And you listen to all those themes and you get to this based on a love letter of a departed loved one and your thoughts after the fact recorded on an iPhone with all this static in the background and your and no production whatsoever. It's so straightforward and simple and so dialed down. And it is the final note of whether the relationship that is fictional on this album or the real one, which turns out to be the case, it is the perfect heartbreaking while also gentle let go. You know, release where you let the audience go and you let the whole thing go. You let the band go, you let everything go. And it's fucking... This is perfect. It's perfect. Darling, all this finds you well There's so much I've got to tell It's how it goes Little things happen I say that I can't keep my head low So you know I'll always be the only one There's no fighting the current with this record. is the disillusionment, the disillusioning of this relationship is inevitable and you feel it from the first track and it is cemented. And I will say the second, the final two songs, because they are so ethereal, and sort of airy even. They kind of mirror that devolve meant almost where things are just, you know, it's like a flag in the wind that just, you know, over the course of days and months and years begins to unravel. And it's just left there blowing in the wind. And that's what this album. and their entire relationship is like to me and why I say it's perfect. Do not get back together. Do not make any more music. Let this be the final note. But spill tea and all of your solo stuff from now on because I need this mini series. Yeah, but what you just said was so poetic. was I love the way that you equated it. to something with airy movement because my mind went to that treasured last sip of coirio. And as I was sipping on my brico de levio, there was just, you get to this track and there's that one last little half ounce in the glass and you're like, okay, this is it. And for some reason you just got more of that fruit and that last little lingering violet and that's she wrote. That's it. And it was perfect. It was painful. It was satisfying, was annoying, there was dissonance, there was clear love and devotion. What's crazy is there were all the things. That's why this album I think is so perfect. All the things were there. All the textures, all the colors, all the stuff was there and... it ended. mean, it is just a it's a thumbnail for life too, in general. I mean, it's like, yeah, you get all the stuff. And then it's done. And that's okay. I will say, I will say to Maria's point on that last sip of wine, like one of the other reasons I really liked the white, the heritage de St. Mont, let's say all our wines again, because we are coming to a close here. But heritage de St. Mont from St. Mont, it has this lightness, it has somebody to it a little bit of oiliness and whatnot. that last sip that I got from this as well, every time I'd come to the end of this album, whether it's just a single glass that I'm sipping or whether when I got to the end of the bottle, that last sip it fades being a white and not being too heavy in body like you get that phantom like and it just poof and you taste a little bit and then you know it's and I was like, that's crazy you say that because of hot hit it but love it. It's crazy you say that because of my white. Yes, that's true. All those sort of notes percolating and moving around kind of just, you know, dissipate and disappear. But that lingering minerality because the minerality is so acute in this one. That was the one that was left on the palette. And I was like, okay, this just there's something about the mineral textures and notes that it's almost like an evolutionary kind of thing. It is satisfying in a way other sort of floral notes or fruity notes just aren't. It's kind of a rooting thing. It's like a rooting sensation. And I think that's why I enjoyed this wine with this album because at the end of this album, I am apparently the minority. I'm okay with them walking away and never turning around to try and reclaim some magic. You For Dallas, the death is the important part. The finality of it. It's like, that's what makes it important. it's not. I just put something together, didn't on an earlier podcast, Dallas, you're a Scorpio, right? Yes. Whoa, God. How'd you know that? That makes so much sense. We said this on the podcast. Scorpio's from space. It was the whole opening. He doesn't remember these things. He's in the moment. He's my JPW. I'm telling you, it's all in the moment. What do we Scorpios do? do we... I honestly know nothing about Scorpios. I am a Virgo with a lot of planets in Scorpio, which means I'm really grounded and super organized, but I'm also very passionate. Scorpios are water signs, so they can get into the flow of things really easily, but the second you turn on them, oof, that other side is ruthless. When they decide you are persona non grata, it's correct. There is a reason why, and since we are in the millennial-ish era here, scorpio is really associated with Slytherins. If Ringo's are Ravenclaws, Scorpio's are textbook slithers. Interesting. All right. I may have to dig into that. I may do a little side quest on my Slytherin persona. my gosh, amazing. Well, on that note, folks, this has been the 2013 album, The Civil Wars, by The Civil Wars. It is one of two albums you can listen to that they ever did outside of live albums and an unplugged album. There's some nice bells and whistles out there for you to keep listening. But go look them up because this album obviously affected all three of us, even those of us who were not me, who were not familiar with them and had never even heard of them. So I highly recommend that. And once again, this has been Maria Bansin, special guest on this show. Maria, tell everyone once again, where can people follow you? Where can they find you? You can find me at Brunello Bombshell dot sub stack dot com. Brunello has two L's and a whole lot of attitude. So look for me on the sub stacks. You can find me on Instagram and Tik Tok at Brunello Bombshell. Beautiful. Beautiful. Thanks so much, Maria. All right, folks. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. We loved it. And I'm sure this will not be the only time this will not be the last time. This is just the first time. I would love to come back. This has been so much fun. you. All right, folks. Thank you so much for listening, for sticking with all two parts and all. We'll see what the edited version of this is, but pretty close to two hours, no matter which way, and two hours of the Civil War. Thank you so much for listening. We will be back next week with another wine and entertainment pairing for your entertainment. Until then, ciao for now. Take care. you you